Fair points, Rudi. And yes, your racial abuse thoughts are a meaningful anchor point of commonality regardless of the noise and disagreements outside of it from this group or that. Taking a knee will be tomorrows fish and chip paper before long, and Madcap is no more a spokesman for a cause than anyone else (and has stated that he's far removed from the politics of it all).

I suspect he doesn't have all of the answers people are looking for and simply wants the very best for people based on his own experiences in life - as we all do. I also can tell he's a decent bloke. Putting it politely some here are far more racially geared than this guy will ever be, but the dynamics and numbers allow for that, which was part of my point really. Apart from trying to steer away from the usual hammer and tongs for a bit!

Anyway, I've given my thoughts and will avoid the fray. People can save their replies as this 110 pager will no doubt roll on and on and I'm too busy wrapping presents to keep up .

Edited by BlueJay (23 Dec 2020 1.39am)

Oh Thomas, well spotted. That's me on the naughty list this Christmas!

I referred to you as Thomas then as you obviously set a very low threshold for what you consider to be an insult. I didn't want to upset you by using the shortened version of your name before we have been properly introduced.

I don't remember the context in which I used the word victim and "eaglecoops" but I am pretty sure that it was not meant to be insulting. I don't have the time or inclination to go back through this thread to try and be sure. But you obviously did, so well done, God loves a trier.

Thomas, I think we need to talk about Stirlingsays.

Have you noticed that the 4 names involved in our recent discussion are "Plumpton Eagle", "Tom the Eagle", "Eaglecoops" and "Stirlingsays"?

Hmmm, what is it with Stirlingsays? We let him join our HOL forum, treat him like an equal, we're forgiving of his uppityness but, unlike us, he can't be bothered to integrate by choosing a site name with the word "eagle" in it.

Obviously,that makes him different and we don't like people that differ from us, do we? They make us SO ANGRY! He must have an agenda and we need to find out what it is.

Thomas, with your proven flair for research, this is clearly a job for you. Please go back though all of Stirlingsays posts and see if he deserves to be one of us. Or, is he just another ungrateful, attention seeking minority that believes that they are better than us and is deserving of some real hate?

Here you are Plumpton. Suggesting that I wish to be perceived by others as a victim. A victim of what exactly? You have have already been proven incorrect with regard to the cancel culture creatures that were making deliberate attempts to force support of BLM onto people or otherwise be tarred with the racist brush.

All this shows is your lack of understanding as to why many on here and even more across the country have an issue with footballers taking the knee. There is only one issue to debate on this subject and that is whether what the footballers are doing supports (directly or indirectly) the BLM movement or not. We think it does otherwise use of the letters on shirts/stadiums and the gesture itself would not be necessary.

Surely you don’t think that football fans boo’d the taking of the knee because they wanted to show how racist they are, or do you have such a dim view of everyone that you believe they must think this way?

If you want a simple answer on what I think of BLM, I abhor it. It is divisive and coercive and flies directly in the face of true integration in our country.

The highlighted bit is I assume yours and Thomas's example of me hurling insults. It is a perception based on your previous posts - hardly an insult.

I wasn't proven incorrect about online pressure to support BLM. I was unaware of it, which is completely different. As soon as it was brought to my attention, I condemned it.

Your debate about the true meaning of taking the knee does not exist. Once again, the FA, Sky, the footballers, the England manager, the England captain and Roy Hodgson have clearly stated it is an anti racism gesture and nothing to do with the BLM movement that you abhor.

I have not said that I think that all fans that booed taking the knee are racist. I haven't met, spoken to or heard from a single one of them.

As I have said before, I do think that fans that were to boo our players (and the oppositions)taking the knee are likely (rightly or wrongly) to be thought of as racist.

Clearly, you and others disagree. You are not going to change your mind and I am not going to change mine.

We are now going round in circles. I have not got involved in one of these threads before. Does there always have to be a winner or can't we just agree to disagree?

I spoke to a black friend of mine ,I know surprised he could hear me with my whites on.
He said basically take the chip off your shoulder and crack on being the best you can. He remembers lots of fights with white kids 30 odd years ago and if you think that's where we are at now you are cuckoo.
I did as you requested.

I note that your think he is. Sometimes people aren't the same on t'internet as in real life.

Not my assertion; one of the black friends you assumed I never had.

The concepts of egalitarianism, especially the mythical equality are not stressed in either Asian nor African societies, only European ones.

And mainly only since around the sixties....ever wondered why that is?....You can track the use of particular words within society and it reveals how culture changes.

Unfortunately there is a tendency within British culture to be trusting of their elites....eg 'lions led by donkeys'. Most people aren't that political and just accept and do what they are told. They have jobs and mortgages....well, the lucky ones have mortgages, some even paid off.

They don't look and compare their society's past to their present and ask awkward questions.....because they are told that means they are sexist or racist or some other 'ist'.....more invented scare words.

All served up by a political class and their supporters who have failed and worsened society over decades.....and like the old soviets think that if only those who disagreed with us weren't there it'll all be fine.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Dec 2020 3.06pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Sorry to disappoint but I have never said that. Heavy suntan I have but black would be pushing it a bit. I think you may be confusing me with someone else.

Blimey, I bet you're fun on a long trip to an away game.