I just find it hard to conclude that we've underperformed for losing a penalty shootout, for example. If we win that shootout, the last 10 years is viewed as a major success and everyone is happy.

That's the nature of knockout tournament football, I know, but I think in terms of assessing the team's performance, I find it hard to call that underperformance.

Foden has certainly been shifted out of position slightly to accommodate Bellingham, but a player of his talent should still be impacting games far more than he is currently, regardless of role.

It is clearly a revamped tactical approach - Bellingham is playing right up alongside Kane, who is not dropping deep in between the lines anymore. Grealish used to hug the left flank to add width on that side, but we now have Foden drifting more centrally and Trippier keeping the width.

The new system is broadly built around Bellingham and giving him the freedom to get around the pitch and press aggressively - it's why the likes of Gordon and Bowen have been preferred to Grealish and Rashford, because they are far more adept at a high-pressing game. It's also partly why Foden is struggling to make an impact because he doesn't press particularly well at all.

Very rarely does a side have to beat all the top sides to win a tournament - look at germany and brazils run to 2002 WC final (brazils hardest game was us and USA played Germany).

So to slag Southgate off for 'always' getting an easy draw is harsh.

I do think Southgate is limited tactically but then again what top top managers are international managers.

France fans don't really like Deschamps pragmatic approach but it wins you tournaments more often then not.

Greece in 04, Portugal in 16, even France and Germanys world cup wins were built in being organized and more not to lose.

The thing with Southgate is a bit of a Hodgson syndrome, i love Southgate for what has done for England but he's too reactionary and not proactive with his subs and ultimately that could cost us and has done previously.

However, who do people expect to be England manager when he does leave? Potter? Lampard? It will most probably be Lee Carsley who is currently doing the 21s

Edited by MFW94 (18 Jun 2024 1.24pm)

Not sure I agree in regards to 2018 - going into the tournament we thought we were lucky to get out of the group - 2 years on from Losing to iceland and big sam being sacked - this myth that in 2018 we were as good as we are now is just not true. we had a midfield of deli alli, Henderson and Lingard up against Rakitic, Kovacic and Modric. We also had Ashley Young at Left Wing back with sterling playing off kane.

It was more a 50/50 game - the only one I solely believe we should of won comfortably was 2021 against the Italians.

Good post. Agree on Southgate but I've also equally pondered who the replacement will/could be?

I think it's the first time ever, whilst I do not wish for it whatsoever, I'd suggest the current Palace Manager for the role!

I have a theory that Eddie Howe is very good at rallying teams early on and taking them on a joyride but fading after that. He might therefore be useful for an Int'l tournament? Not sure what substance, if any, is in that? He can't be long at N'castle either

Agree will end up with someone like Howe - to be honest being an international manager is hard enough only having players 4/5 times a year -

Its when you get these absoloute loons on Talksport and other media platform saying we should get Pep or Klopp for England LOL.

What top manager goes to manage an international side in their prime?

Loew and Deschamps were mediocre managers before winning a world cup - Capello had won a european cup and was god awful

Mancini and Spaletti are the only managers I can think of and maybe Naglesmann but theyre not elite elite.

According to who? The whole root of your frustration seems to stem from a feeling that we 'should' beat everyone, but I don't really understand what that is based on. That we as a nation often over-inflate our expectations is a huge part of why the perception is always one of failure.

We have a very good team, but in every tournament there will be numerous very good teams. We don't have a divine right to beat them all because we feel like we should.

Good post. Agree on Southgate but I've also equally pondered who the replacement will/could be?

I think it's the first time ever, whilst I do not wish for it whatsoever, I'd suggest the current Palace Manager for the role!

I have a theory that Eddie Howe is very good at rallying teams early on and taking them on a joyride but fading after that. He might therefore be useful for an Int'l tournament? Not sure what substance, if any, is in that? He can't be long at N'castle either

I think one of the things that Southgate needs to start thinking about is who is going to play at left back against Dembele if the seeding works out. Shaw will not be match fit and Trippier is not quick enough. Saka could play left wing back in a back 5 and this could allow Palmer to play.

Edited by viveasheagle (19 Jun 2024 4.52am)

Turkey showed England how we should play, good luck to them.

In both recent friendlies he played Trippier. He was poor in both of those, poor in the first group game, and if I was to hazzard a guess he'll be poor in every other game he played.

I suspect its my Palace bias talking, but given his upturn in form I would have wanted to have a look at Mitchell in one of those warm up games.

Would have also given Doughty 45 mins to see if he could hack it.