 Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 02 Dec 15 8.36pm |
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The left threatening violence in the name of peace
the dignified don't even enter in the game
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matt_himself  Matataland 02 Dec 15 10.07pm |
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What a speech from Hilary Benn.
There is hope for Labour.
Well done Corbyn for turni up late to the debate.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 02 Dec 15 10.17pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 02 Dec 2015 10.07pm
What a speech from Hilary Benn.
There is hope for Labour.
Well done Corbyn for turni up late to the debate.
Probably busy having a "right on" chat with Jerry Adams.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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| Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 02 Dec 15 11.07pm |
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Unbelievable
the dignified don't even enter in the game
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 03 Dec 15 8.24am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Dec 2015 1.02pm
Quote We are goin up! at 02 Dec 2015 11.51am
Quote DanH at 02 Dec 2015 11.44am
Quote We are goin up! at 02 Dec 2015 11.39am
Quote DanH at 02 Dec 2015 11.01am
Agree that the obsession with Farage was mental too.
I'm just struggling to comprehend how the government and media have managed to spin it so that it's the guys who *don't* want to kill people that are the villains of the piece.
FYI - I'm against bombing as all it does it validates their campaign against us and makes us a legitimate target for Paris style attack. Working in central London I find that fairly scary.
If that makes me a terrorist sympathiser then lube me up and shove a kalishnikov in me.
They already do want to get at us! We need to do something to eliminate them so that they can't act on their plans, surely?
Head in the sand stuff.
OK, more of a legitimate target. Something will happen here in the weeks after this bombing campaign starts.
They want it to happen either way. Us bombing Syria makes no difference, we are the enemy. What we must not do is do nothing. I find it staggering that people don't want us to defend not only ourselves but also our allies. The Americans, the French, the Aussies are all in there at there already, we simply have to support them, otherwise if something did happen to us, which it inevitably will regardless of today's vote, they will think twice before supporting us.
It's a f*cking rubbish decision to have to make, I don't believe that any government would actually want to go to war unless it felt it had to (it's expensive and extraordinarily risky politically after Iraq), but just because something is difficult doesn't mean it isn't right.
We're not actually defending ourselves though are we. We're just killing people with no real objective or planned outcome to appease public 'demand' to do something. At best it will inconvenience IS, at worst it'll bolster them and their support as we inevitably kill people around them.
We could, maybe, instead go after their money and income, which objectively, we could quite seriously degrade and the consequnences of targeting people involved in the oil smuggling and 'laundering' are people who aren't going to be 'fanatics'.
Its astonishing how IS can manage to actually make 2-3m a day from oil smuggling, despite the US and our allies, striking at IS assets in Syria and Iraq....
Fully agree with this. This is all propaganda smoke and mirrors. What sort of a military decision does anyone think a squadron ot two of Tornadoes is going to force on IS?
A proper war, with a proper combined arms campaign and clear goals, will sweep IS off the board in very short order. Makes you wonder why - if the West is so keen to deal with this threat - they don't seem ready to do anything that will make a material and conclusive difference.
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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| beagle pom tiddly om pom pom 03 Dec 15 9.48am |
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Quote matt_himself at 02 Dec 2015 10.07pm
What a speech from Hilary Benn.
That really, really surprised me - as I had never clocked him as 'an orator'. Whether one approves or his views or not, that speech made him look like a future potential leader.
When the time comes, I want die just like my Dad - at peace and asleep.
Not screaming and terrified.
Like his passengers.
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| DanH SW2 03 Dec 15 9.56am |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 02 Dec 2015 8.36pm
The left threatening violence in the name of peace
The right actually carrying out violence in the name of peace.
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| npn Crowborough 03 Dec 15 9.57am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Dec 2015 1.02pm
Quote We are goin up! at 02 Dec 2015 11.51am
Quote DanH at 02 Dec 2015 11.44am
Quote We are goin up! at 02 Dec 2015 11.39am
Quote DanH at 02 Dec 2015 11.01am
Agree that the obsession with Farage was mental too.
I'm just struggling to comprehend how the government and media have managed to spin it so that it's the guys who *don't* want to kill people that are the villains of the piece.
FYI - I'm against bombing as all it does it validates their campaign against us and makes us a legitimate target for Paris style attack. Working in central London I find that fairly scary.
If that makes me a terrorist sympathiser then lube me up and shove a kalishnikov in me.
They already do want to get at us! We need to do something to eliminate them so that they can't act on their plans, surely?
Head in the sand stuff.
OK, more of a legitimate target. Something will happen here in the weeks after this bombing campaign starts.
They want it to happen either way. Us bombing Syria makes no difference, we are the enemy. What we must not do is do nothing. I find it staggering that people don't want us to defend not only ourselves but also our allies. The Americans, the French, the Aussies are all in there at there already, we simply have to support them, otherwise if something did happen to us, which it inevitably will regardless of today's vote, they will think twice before supporting us.
It's a f*cking rubbish decision to have to make, I don't believe that any government would actually want to go to war unless it felt it had to (it's expensive and extraordinarily risky politically after Iraq), but just because something is difficult doesn't mean it isn't right.
We're not actually defending ourselves though are we. We're just killing people with no real objective or planned outcome to appease public 'demand' to do something. At best it will inconvenience IS, at worst it'll bolster them and their support as we inevitably kill people around them.
We could, maybe, instead go after their money and income, which objectively, we could quite seriously degrade and the consequences of targeting people involved in the oil smuggling and 'laundering' are people who aren't going to be 'fanatics'.
Its astonishing how IS can manage to actually make 2-3m a day from oil smuggling, despite the US and our allies, striking at IS assets in Syria and Iraq....
Looks like the tactic - hitting the oilfields. Minimising civilian casualties, maximising (hopefully) the impact on the pocket.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Dec 15 11.39am |
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Quote npn at 03 Dec 2015 9.57am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Dec 2015 1.02pm
Quote We are goin up! at 02 Dec 2015 11.51am
Quote DanH at 02 Dec 2015 11.44am
Quote We are goin up! at 02 Dec 2015 11.39am
Quote DanH at 02 Dec 2015 11.01am
Agree that the obsession with Farage was mental too.
I'm just struggling to comprehend how the government and media have managed to spin it so that it's the guys who *don't* want to kill people that are the villains of the piece.
FYI - I'm against bombing as all it does it validates their campaign against us and makes us a legitimate target for Paris style attack. Working in central London I find that fairly scary.
If that makes me a terrorist sympathiser then lube me up and shove a kalishnikov in me.
They already do want to get at us! We need to do something to eliminate them so that they can't act on their plans, surely?
Head in the sand stuff.
OK, more of a legitimate target. Something will happen here in the weeks after this bombing campaign starts.
They want it to happen either way. Us bombing Syria makes no difference, we are the enemy. What we must not do is do nothing. I find it staggering that people don't want us to defend not only ourselves but also our allies. The Americans, the French, the Aussies are all in there at there already, we simply have to support them, otherwise if something did happen to us, which it inevitably will regardless of today's vote, they will think twice before supporting us.
It's a f*cking rubbish decision to have to make, I don't believe that any government would actually want to go to war unless it felt it had to (it's expensive and extraordinarily risky politically after Iraq), but just because something is difficult doesn't mean it isn't right.
We're not actually defending ourselves though are we. We're just killing people with no real objective or planned outcome to appease public 'demand' to do something. At best it will inconvenience IS, at worst it'll bolster them and their support as we inevitably kill people around them.
We could, maybe, instead go after their money and income, which objectively, we could quite seriously degrade and the consequences of targeting people involved in the oil smuggling and 'laundering' are people who aren't going to be 'fanatics'.
Its astonishing how IS can manage to actually make 2-3m a day from oil smuggling, despite the US and our allies, striking at IS assets in Syria and Iraq....
Looks like the tactic - hitting the oilfields. Minimising civilian casualties, maximising (hopefully) the impact on the pocket.
Need to target the people involved in the higher end profitieering from smuggling and laundering of funds as well, not necessarily by way of a 500lb bomb. If we can follow the money up the chain, we can choke off the points of supply and demand further up the chain where you're not dealing with people 'ready to die for the cause'.
Destroying their income as an objective, based on the level of engagement they're talking about, is a viable option.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Dec 15 11.39am |
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Quote DanH at 03 Dec 2015 9.56am
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 02 Dec 2015 8.36pm
The left threatening violence in the name of peace
The right actually carrying out violence in the name of peace.
So did the last Labour Government - quite a lot.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
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| npn Crowborough 03 Dec 15 11.41am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Dec 2015 11.39am
Quote npn at 03 Dec 2015 9.57am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Dec 2015 1.02pm
Quote We are goin up! at 02 Dec 2015 11.51am
Quote DanH at 02 Dec 2015 11.44am
Quote We are goin up! at 02 Dec 2015 11.39am
Quote DanH at 02 Dec 2015 11.01am
Agree that the obsession with Farage was mental too.
I'm just struggling to comprehend how the government and media have managed to spin it so that it's the guys who *don't* want to kill people that are the villains of the piece.
FYI - I'm against bombing as all it does it validates their campaign against us and makes us a legitimate target for Paris style attack. Working in central London I find that fairly scary.
If that makes me a terrorist sympathiser then lube me up and shove a kalishnikov in me.
They already do want to get at us! We need to do something to eliminate them so that they can't act on their plans, surely?
Head in the sand stuff.
OK, more of a legitimate target. Something will happen here in the weeks after this bombing campaign starts.
They want it to happen either way. Us bombing Syria makes no difference, we are the enemy. What we must not do is do nothing. I find it staggering that people don't want us to defend not only ourselves but also our allies. The Americans, the French, the Aussies are all in there at there already, we simply have to support them, otherwise if something did happen to us, which it inevitably will regardless of today's vote, they will think twice before supporting us.
It's a f*cking rubbish decision to have to make, I don't believe that any government would actually want to go to war unless it felt it had to (it's expensive and extraordinarily risky politically after Iraq), but just because something is difficult doesn't mean it isn't right.
We're not actually defending ourselves though are we. We're just killing people with no real objective or planned outcome to appease public 'demand' to do something. At best it will inconvenience IS, at worst it'll bolster them and their support as we inevitably kill people around them.
We could, maybe, instead go after their money and income, which objectively, we could quite seriously degrade and the consequences of targeting people involved in the oil smuggling and 'laundering' are people who aren't going to be 'fanatics'.
Its astonishing how IS can manage to actually make 2-3m a day from oil smuggling, despite the US and our allies, striking at IS assets in Syria and Iraq....
Looks like the tactic - hitting the oilfields. Minimising civilian casualties, maximising (hopefully) the impact on the pocket.
Need to target the people involved in the higher end profitieering from smuggling and laundering of funds as well, not necessarily by way of a 500lb bomb. If we can follow the money up the chain, we can choke off the points of supply and demand further up the chain where you're not dealing with people 'ready to die for the cause'.
Destroying their income as an objective, based on the level of engagement they're talking about, is a viable option.
Particularly given that Turkey seem to being named on the list of customers, and they are supposed to be on our side!
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| DanH SW2 03 Dec 15 11.45am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Dec 2015 11.39am
Quote DanH at 03 Dec 2015 9.56am
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 02 Dec 2015 8.36pm
The left threatening violence in the name of peace
The right actually carrying out violence in the name of peace.
So did the last Labour Government - quite a lot.
So in summary, they're all c*nts.
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| Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 03 Dec 15 11.48am |
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Quote DanH at 03 Dec 2015 11.45am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Dec 2015 11.39am
Quote DanH at 03 Dec 2015 9.56am
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 02 Dec 2015 8.36pm
The left threatening violence in the name of peace
The right actually carrying out violence in the name of peace.
So did the last Labour Government - quite a lot.
So in summary, they're all c*nts.
Probably the one unifying post on this thread
the dignified don't even enter in the game
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The Sash  Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 03 Dec 15 2.07pm |
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I have a question..
Back in October David Cameron made a statement that 'Russian bombing in Syria would increase radicalisation and increase terrorism'.
Could anyone enlighten me as to what is different with our bombs to the Russian ones that ensures ours dont ?
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014
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| Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 03 Dec 15 2.09pm |
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Quote The Sash at 03 Dec 2015 2.07pm
I have a question..
Back in October David Cameron made a statement that 'Russian bombing in Syria would increase radicalisation and increase terrorism'.
Could anyone enlighten me as to what is different with our bombs to the Russian ones that ensures ours dont ?
Russians are bombing everyone (bar Assad)
Edited by Y Ddraig Goch (03 Dec 2015 2.18pm)
the dignified don't even enter in the game
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| Stuk Top half 03 Dec 15 3.32pm |
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Quote The Sash at 03 Dec 2015 2.07pm
I have a question..
Back in October David Cameron made a statement that 'Russian bombing in Syria would increase radicalisation and increase terrorism'.
Could anyone enlighten me as to what is different with our bombs to the Russian ones that ensures ours dont ?
In October Russia were pretty much bombing anyone against Assad. It wasn't until November, when they decided the Russian passenger plane had been blown up, to also target the same groups as the US/French etc.
Optimistic as ever
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| The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 03 Dec 15 3.36pm |
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Quote Stuk at 03 Dec 2015 3.32pm
Quote The Sash at 03 Dec 2015 2.07pm
I have a question..
Back in October David Cameron made a statement that 'Russian bombing in Syria would increase radicalisation and increase terrorism'.
Could anyone enlighten me as to what is different with our bombs to the Russian ones that ensures ours dont ?
In October Russia were pretty much bombing anyone against Assad. It wasn't until November, when they decided the Russian passenger plane had been blown up, to also target the same groups as the US/French etc.
Ta
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014
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blind eagle  Covington.Tennessee 03 Dec 15 4.54pm |
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Quote CambridgeEagle at 27 Jul 2015 5.27pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 27 Jul 2015 5.13pm
Quote phillanth at 27 Jul 2015 5.08pm
What's wrong with being a Marxist? Please explain?
The mountains of corpses they tend to generate?
If that's what you think a Marxist is then Corbyn certainly is not one. If you his plan for 2020 a lot of it is actually eminently sensible. It certainly is not Marxist. I'd say he is a socialist egalitarian.
What is the difference?
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Dec 15 5.25pm |
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Quote blind eagle at 03 Dec 2015 4.54pm
Quote CambridgeEagle at 27 Jul 2015 5.27pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 27 Jul 2015 5.13pm
Quote phillanth at 27 Jul 2015 5.08pm
What's wrong with being a Marxist? Please explain?
The mountains of corpses they tend to generate?
If that's what you think a Marxist is then Corbyn certainly is not one. If you his plan for 2020 a lot of it is actually eminently sensible. It certainly is not Marxist. I'd say he is a socialist egalitarian.
What is the difference?
Marxist-communists aren't egalitarian.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
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-TUX-  Alphabettispaghetti 03 Dec 15 6.38pm |
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Quote The Sash at 03 Dec 2015 2.07pm
I have a question..
Back in October David Cameron made a statement that 'Russian bombing in Syria would increase radicalisation and increase terrorism'.
Could anyone enlighten me as to what is different with our bombs to the Russian ones that ensures ours dont ?
Obviously not (for some reason?) given the responses so far.
Time to move forward together.
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