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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 04 Jun 16 9.43am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Austerity is when socialists get told to stop spending other people's money on social engineering projects designed to win them votes or keep them in power if the said socialists have achieved their goals and destroyed democracy (see Venezuela for example). Simple as. Really? I thought most government projects (such as giving money to academies so that exec heads can pilfer it)come from tax payments by the populous. Isn't that also government spending other people's money.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Jun 16 9.48am |
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Labour leave, the group funded by Tory donors....
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 Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Jun 16 10.33am |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
Well, having watched both, I'd say if anything Gove got a rougher deal with Faisal Islam - far too much interrupting, and then allowed an audience member the final say without right of reply at the very end. Generally poor moderating from Sky on both nights. You can't moderate the behaviour of the audience members, of course. Cameron got a smashing, and rightly so. Gove did OK, but not stellar. They are idiots for slapping the £350m/wk on a bus... Better to put an indisputable net figure, coupled with a killer stat: "with what we gave the EU last government: we could have eliminated austerity cuts and taken 1p off income tax" Agree Faisal Islam gave Gove a tougher time yet the audience gave Dave a far more tougher time than Gove. Islam needs to tone it down a bit. I liked the intention to get an answer and make it obvious to the audience when they don't answer but he should give them a chance first. Some of the time he was interrupting 3 times or more in the 1st sentence of Dave's or Gove's reply. Like a Paxman on 2g of Speed with 2 lines of Devil's Dandruff to get him started. I agree they may as well have used the figure after rebate and possibly before the subsidy type payments they demand we spend them on although I don't think it's going to damage them that much, especially as some of the remain figures are clutched out of thin air before calculating the answer, or inoutting the worst assumptions to get there. Every day or 2 the odds shorten by 10%. 5/2, now 9/4.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 04 Jun 16 10.38am |
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I am more interested by the overall message than their funding arrangements.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 04 Jun 16 10.51am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Islam needs to tone it down a bit. I liked the intention to get an answer and make it obvious to the audience when they don't answer but he should give them a chance first. Some of the time he was interrupting 3 times or more in the 1st sentence of Dave's or Gove's reply. Like a Paxman on 2g of Speed with 2 lines of Devil's Dandruff to get him started. A lot of preparation and practice !
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| elgrande bedford 04 Jun 16 11.07am |
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Originally posted by Willo
I am more interested by the overall message than their funding arrangements. On this rare occasion I totally agree with you Willo.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| Hoof Hearted 04 Jun 16 11.39am | |
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Originally posted by elgrande
On this rare occasion I totally agree with you Willo. .... and if Corbyn had any morals, he would be leading the Labour Leave campaign. He's openly criticised the EU bureaucracy for 40 years FFS.
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| davenotamonkey 04 Jun 16 12.34pm |
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Originally posted by elgrande
On this rare occasion I totally agree with you Willo. This'll confound the hell out of the board perhaps, but I've donated to Labour leave. I sure am not rich, not even close, and I can't say I support them politically. But they are making a "LEXIT" (Left-[Br]Exit) film to push the left-wing case for leaving the EU. So I donated for that cause. I want it to be made, I want it to be heard. Not least to explode the myth that EU-scepticism is some kind of "nasty xenophobic far-right nationalist disease". It is cross-spectrum politically, and if it gets us out, then good. I almost wonder if Corbyn also secretly backed it.
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| davenotamonkey 04 Jun 16 12.48pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Agree Faisal Islam gave Gove a tougher time yet the audience gave Dave a far more tougher time than Gove. Islam needs to tone it down a bit. I liked the intention to get an answer and make it obvious to the audience when they don't answer but he should give them a chance first. Some of the time he was interrupting 3 times or more in the 1st sentence of Dave's or Gove's reply. Like a Paxman on 2g of Speed with 2 lines of Devil's Dandruff to get him started. I agree they may as well have used the figure after rebate and possibly before the subsidy type payments they demand we spend them on although I don't think it's going to damage them that much, especially as some of the remain figures are clutched out of thin air before calculating the answer, or inoutting the worst assumptions to get there. Every day or 2 the odds shorten by 10%. 5/2, now 9/4. There are, however, two issues overlooked here frequently. First is that the rebate is assured - it isn't. Cameron himself told us that. He told us *extremely* quietly after he very quietly paid the extra £1.7Bn he "refused to pay" in 2014. Secondly, with regards to the money we "get back". Yes, we get told how and where to spend it. It's not just "free money". That should be clear (I hope) to anyone. However, these frequently stipulate that the UK government must match £-for-£ the "EU funds". So, my local art centre, "paid for by EU funds": UK handed over £10m to Brussels Scam.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Jun 16 12.59pm |
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As a slight diversion. High ranking UKIP member turns to EU to appeal against court ruling...
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| snytaxx London 04 Jun 16 2.19pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
As a slight diversion. High ranking UKIP member turns to EU to appeal against court ruling... Perhaps put it on the UKIP thread then?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Jun 16 2.36pm |
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Originally posted by snytaxx
Perhaps put it on the UKIP thread then? Or show the hypocrisy of some brexiters. BTW. I still haven't decided how I'm going to vote.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Jun 16 2.41pm |
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Originally posted by thegreatlardino
too be honest getting very bored with all this..going to be screwed by which ever government is in regardless...couple of questions though...say the country votes to leave...then what happens? do we go right its the 1st of July, we are taking our stumps away and going home to play with other kids? would it not need an act of parliament? a tad confused..but its funny watching the tory party infighting though. Edited by thegreatlardino (04 Jun 2016 11.59am) As far as I know it's 2 years before anything has to change. Tariffs remain the same, free movement remains the same, with a probable rush of people before the deadline. As far as whether an out decision is set in stone, I am unsure, but anyone that doesn't carry it through will lose all credibility and suffer a vote of no confidence. If Cameron walk back to the pavilion if we lose even he wouldn't go against the referendum result, it's what he wanted 6 months ago and more anyway as he knew he wouldn't get any reforms of any real worth.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Jun 16 2.44pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Or show the hypocrisy of some brexiters. BTW. I still haven't decided how I'm going to vote. Don't do what Paul Mason might do and not vote out because it's the tories who run the country now. This is for probably half of your life, nearly all of your kids and all of your grandchildren and so on. That's why I'm voting out. If I was post-grad age or had kids that age or slightly younger I'd possibly vote in. Slightly younger and possibly undecided. Younger than that and definitely out.
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 04 Jun 16 2.45pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Or show the hypocrisy of some brexiters. BTW. I still haven't decided how I'm going to vote. .......but from your stance over the last few pages, if not the whole of this thread I'd say you lack the balls to vote OUT & you'll side with your favourite Cund Call me Dave.
Pro USA & Israel |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Jun 16 2.49pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Don't do what Paul Mason might do and not vote out because it's the tories who run the country now. This is for probably half of your life, nearly all of your kids and all of your grandchildren and so on. That's why I'm voting out. If I was post-grad age or had kids that age or slightly younger I'd possibly vote in. Slightly younger and possibly undecided. Younger than that and definitely out. I left the Labour party because of the direction it took on Iraq and was drifting towards TUSC. However I'm more happy with the direction Labour has taken. The change came from within. However I'm not sure if the change from within could happen in the EU.
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| Stirlingsays 04 Jun 16 3.06pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
I left the Labour party because of the direction it took on Iraq and was drifting towards TUSC. However I'm more happy with the direction Labour has taken. The change came from within. However I'm not sure if the change from within could happen in the EU. Haven't you rejoined yet Nick?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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leifandersonshair  Newport 04 Jun 16 3.13pm |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
There are, however, two issues overlooked here frequently. First is that the rebate is assured - it isn't. Cameron himself told us that. He told us *extremely* quietly after he very quietly paid the extra £1.7Bn he "refused to pay" in 2014. Secondly, with regards to the money we "get back". Yes, we get told how and where to spend it. It's not just "free money". That should be clear (I hope) to anyone. However, these frequently stipulate that the UK government must match £-for-£ the "EU funds". So, my local art centre, "paid for by EU funds": UK handed over £10m to Brussels Scam. Good points- however, would central government actually fund your local arts centre? Or would they prefer to blow it on tax cuts for the richest, and a vanity project in London somewhere? Or a shiny new Type 45 Destroyer? Or, basically, anything else? Same for EU farming subsidies- anyone who thinks this money would be happily paid by the UK government to farmers direct without the EU is crazy. Brexit would probably mean the collapse of what remains of the UK farming industry. In an odd way, having monies from the EU earmarked for certain projects can be a good thing- better (using your example) £15m on the arts centre, than zero.
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