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Jeremy Corbyn


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matt_himself Flag Matataland 12 Jan 16 8.16pm

Interesting:

[Link]

 

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 12 Jan 16 8.43pm

Quote Stuk at 12 Jan 2016 4.55pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 4.41pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Jan 2016 12.59pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 12.45pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Jan 2016 11.48am

Quote Mr_Gristle at 11 Jan 2016 6.57pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Jan 2016 3.49pm

Quote Mr_Gristle at 11 Jan 2016 1.29pm

Can someone remind me what panto villain Corbyn has done to screw up our economy, widen the wealth gap between the haves and have-nots, outsource our infrastucture to foreign companies and foreign state-supported entities and make the housing market in the south east all but inaccessible to new entrants without a sizeable trust fund?

Keep on swallowing the propaganda, people. All is well with Dave & George at the helm. Nothing to worry about except the Reds / Scots / Islamist Fanatics. Keep spending......


Most of us remember the last car crash of a Labour administration for 13 years (unlucky for us) under Blair and Brown.

Labour then lurched to the left with Miliband/Balls and the country decided not to risk a minimum 5 year term with those prize plonkers at the helm.

The Labour Party have now appointed Corbyn as leader with the backing of about 200,000 hardened Labour members and unions.

His performance so far has put off many millions of potential voters, not any propaganda - did the sun or the mail force Corbyn to say he would not fire a nuclear device? Does the express give Corbyn fashion tips? Does the telegraph or Sky News advise Corbyn on his choice of shadow cabinet?

All of what Corbyn does is reported on TV, Radio, internet and newspapers and people make their own minds up. Recent polls suggest they think Corbyn is a scruffy trotskyist that cannot be trusted to do what is best for our country in its hour of need. He is a hypocrite who chastises fellow MP's for being disloyal, but as a backbencher he defied the Labour Whip over 550 times.

I hope and pray that he continues as Labour leader as every day he is in office the chances of Labour getting back into power greatly diminish.

People keep saying that Corbyn has the biggest mandate of any previous Labour leader, but that in reality is the 200,000 I mentioned above. The job Corbyn has to do to get in power is to convince about 12 million voters to back him and all he appears to be doing is scaring them off?

You've missed the point Hoof. My point is that - whatever your views on Corbyn - he and his viewpoints have had no bearing whatsoever on the way the UK economy stands now. He is being used as part of the smoke & mirrors campaign being run to tell us all that Dave & George's Plan A is working and we need at least another 4 years of it because Corbyn in power would bankrupt the country / get it nuked by the Russians / get it overrun by "terrorists".

My point is that the UK economy is becoming ever more distorted against the interests of the average working person (house prices, job insecurity, outsourcing of mid-range jobs, race to the bottom on pay & conditions etc) and this can and should be laid firmly at the door of Dave, George and their sponsors.


I haven't missed any point Gristle!

I don't disagree that Corbyn personally has had no direct effect on the economy to date, but the criticisms of him now relate to his perceived ability to be able to run the country - he has put himself up for the job by accepting the Labour Party leadership. It happened to Cameron before he was elected PM and it will always happen to the leader of the opposition.

As for your 2nd paragraph.... you claim all the problems can be laid at the door of Cameron and Osborne but I would say the unfettered immigration started by Blair/Brown has had more of a negative effect on the items you mentioned.

Certainly house prices have been driven up by the shortage of housing caused by immigration. Job insecurity and pay & conditions affected by an ever increasing tide of eu migrants prepared to work for less and without contracts or sick pay etc..... not to mention illegal immigrants from all over the world working here either.

I'll bet though that you are in favour of staying in the EU despite what I have just pointed out!

You judge a person's ability in politics by how they dress?

Then you get the government you deserve.

Housing crisis caused by immigration - perhaps it has some bearing on this, but selling off council/social housing (ooh and look Cameron is knocking down sink estates to replace them with affordable -£450k affordable my arse - stock)and not replacing them with social housing coupled with over 500000 empty properties has more impact if you ask me.


Who doesn't judge a person by their appearance nick?

I'll bet you didn't turn up to your last job interview wearing casual clothes.

The public build up a picture of any potential leader by the way he/she dresses, speaks, carries themselves and the way they react in a crisis.

Corbyn fails all round.

Playing down immigration's effect on housing stock is naive and wrong.

It is the single most important reason why there is a chronic shortage now and with net annual immigration increasing by 330,000 and rising, there will never be enough housing built to cope with demand or the space for the necessary infrastructure that goes with it.

But never mind nick you vote yes to stay in the EU mate.

Do you concede that a failure to replace sold off housing stock and vast numbers of empty properties has a bearing on the housing crisis.

How about those forced out through unaffordable private rents? Does this not make the situation worse?

Last year the population increased by 491,000.

260,000 of those were from migration, of the remaining 231,000 birth increase - a quarter were to mothers born outside the UK.

If the private rents were unaffordable, then no one would be renting them.

Doesn't matter if there are empty properties as you seem to think that people who have their rents paid should never have to move to other areas, even if they have a glut of empty properties that are cheap to rent.

Edited by Stuk (12 Jan 2016 4.55pm)

Where, prey tell, are the places with a glut of empty rentable properties?

 
Pista Flag Bristol 12 Jan 16 11.20pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Jan 2016 8.16pm

Interesting:

[Link]

yeh fascinating.


 

old time bbs refugee
Pista Flag Bristol 12 Jan 16 11.29pm

Quote matt_himself at 09 Jan 2016 10.13pm

Quote Pista at 09 Jan 2016 8.00pm

Also, one can't help but think that we have crossed swords before. Remind me, what was your previous moniker?

It was always Pista, I never posted here.

 

old time bbs refugee
Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 12 Jan 16 11.35pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 8.43pm

Quote Stuk at 12 Jan 2016 4.55pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 4.41pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Jan 2016 12.59pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 12.45pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Jan 2016 11.48am

Quote Mr_Gristle at 11 Jan 2016 6.57pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Jan 2016 3.49pm

Quote Mr_Gristle at 11 Jan 2016 1.29pm

Can someone remind me what panto villain Corbyn has done to screw up our economy, widen the wealth gap between the haves and have-nots, outsource our infrastucture to foreign companies and foreign state-supported entities and make the housing market in the south east all but inaccessible to new entrants without a sizeable trust fund?

Keep on swallowing the propaganda, people. All is well with Dave & George at the helm. Nothing to worry about except the Reds / Scots / Islamist Fanatics. Keep spending......


Most of us remember the last car crash of a Labour administration for 13 years (unlucky for us) under Blair and Brown.

Labour then lurched to the left with Miliband/Balls and the country decided not to risk a minimum 5 year term with those prize plonkers at the helm.

The Labour Party have now appointed Corbyn as leader with the backing of about 200,000 hardened Labour members and unions.

His performance so far has put off many millions of potential voters, not any propaganda - did the sun or the mail force Corbyn to say he would not fire a nuclear device? Does the express give Corbyn fashion tips? Does the telegraph or Sky News advise Corbyn on his choice of shadow cabinet?

All of what Corbyn does is reported on TV, Radio, internet and newspapers and people make their own minds up. Recent polls suggest they think Corbyn is a scruffy trotskyist that cannot be trusted to do what is best for our country in its hour of need. He is a hypocrite who chastises fellow MP's for being disloyal, but as a backbencher he defied the Labour Whip over 550 times.

I hope and pray that he continues as Labour leader as every day he is in office the chances of Labour getting back into power greatly diminish.

People keep saying that Corbyn has the biggest mandate of any previous Labour leader, but that in reality is the 200,000 I mentioned above. The job Corbyn has to do to get in power is to convince about 12 million voters to back him and all he appears to be doing is scaring them off?

You've missed the point Hoof. My point is that - whatever your views on Corbyn - he and his viewpoints have had no bearing whatsoever on the way the UK economy stands now. He is being used as part of the smoke & mirrors campaign being run to tell us all that Dave & George's Plan A is working and we need at least another 4 years of it because Corbyn in power would bankrupt the country / get it nuked by the Russians / get it overrun by "terrorists".

My point is that the UK economy is becoming ever more distorted against the interests of the average working person (house prices, job insecurity, outsourcing of mid-range jobs, race to the bottom on pay & conditions etc) and this can and should be laid firmly at the door of Dave, George and their sponsors.


I haven't missed any point Gristle!

I don't disagree that Corbyn personally has had no direct effect on the economy to date, but the criticisms of him now relate to his perceived ability to be able to run the country - he has put himself up for the job by accepting the Labour Party leadership. It happened to Cameron before he was elected PM and it will always happen to the leader of the opposition.

As for your 2nd paragraph.... you claim all the problems can be laid at the door of Cameron and Osborne but I would say the unfettered immigration started by Blair/Brown has had more of a negative effect on the items you mentioned.

Certainly house prices have been driven up by the shortage of housing caused by immigration. Job insecurity and pay & conditions affected by an ever increasing tide of eu migrants prepared to work for less and without contracts or sick pay etc..... not to mention illegal immigrants from all over the world working here either.

I'll bet though that you are in favour of staying in the EU despite what I have just pointed out!

You judge a person's ability in politics by how they dress?

Then you get the government you deserve.

Housing crisis caused by immigration - perhaps it has some bearing on this, but selling off council/social housing (ooh and look Cameron is knocking down sink estates to replace them with affordable -£450k affordable my arse - stock)and not replacing them with social housing coupled with over 500000 empty properties has more impact if you ask me.


Who doesn't judge a person by their appearance nick?

I'll bet you didn't turn up to your last job interview wearing casual clothes.

The public build up a picture of any potential leader by the way he/she dresses, speaks, carries themselves and the way they react in a crisis.

Corbyn fails all round.

Playing down immigration's effect on housing stock is naive and wrong.

It is the single most important reason why there is a chronic shortage now and with net annual immigration increasing by 330,000 and rising, there will never be enough housing built to cope with demand or the space for the necessary infrastructure that goes with it.

But never mind nick you vote yes to stay in the EU mate.

Do you concede that a failure to replace sold off housing stock and vast numbers of empty properties has a bearing on the housing crisis.

How about those forced out through unaffordable private rents? Does this not make the situation worse?

Last year the population increased by 491,000.

260,000 of those were from migration, of the remaining 231,000 birth increase - a quarter were to mothers born outside the UK.

If the private rents were unaffordable, then no one would be renting them.

Doesn't matter if there are empty properties as you seem to think that people who have their rents paid should never have to move to other areas, even if they have a glut of empty properties that are cheap to rent.

Edited by Stuk (12 Jan 2016 4.55pm)

Where, prey tell, are the places with a glut of empty rentable properties?

I currently have one in Balham, PM for details......

 

Pro USA & Israel
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Jan 16 12.26am

Quote Jimenez at 12 Jan 2016 11.35pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 8.43pm

Quote Stuk at 12 Jan 2016 4.55pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 4.41pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Jan 2016 12.59pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 12.45pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Jan 2016 11.48am

Quote Mr_Gristle at 11 Jan 2016 6.57pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Jan 2016 3.49pm

Quote Mr_Gristle at 11 Jan 2016 1.29pm

Can someone remind me what panto villain Corbyn has done to screw up our economy, widen the wealth gap between the haves and have-nots, outsource our infrastucture to foreign companies and foreign state-supported entities and make the housing market in the south east all but inaccessible to new entrants without a sizeable trust fund?

Keep on swallowing the propaganda, people. All is well with Dave & George at the helm. Nothing to worry about except the Reds / Scots / Islamist Fanatics. Keep spending......


Most of us remember the last car crash of a Labour administration for 13 years (unlucky for us) under Blair and Brown.

Labour then lurched to the left with Miliband/Balls and the country decided not to risk a minimum 5 year term with those prize plonkers at the helm.

The Labour Party have now appointed Corbyn as leader with the backing of about 200,000 hardened Labour members and unions.

His performance so far has put off many millions of potential voters, not any propaganda - did the sun or the mail force Corbyn to say he would not fire a nuclear device? Does the express give Corbyn fashion tips? Does the telegraph or Sky News advise Corbyn on his choice of shadow cabinet?

All of what Corbyn does is reported on TV, Radio, internet and newspapers and people make their own minds up. Recent polls suggest they think Corbyn is a scruffy trotskyist that cannot be trusted to do what is best for our country in its hour of need. He is a hypocrite who chastises fellow MP's for being disloyal, but as a backbencher he defied the Labour Whip over 550 times.

I hope and pray that he continues as Labour leader as every day he is in office the chances of Labour getting back into power greatly diminish.

People keep saying that Corbyn has the biggest mandate of any previous Labour leader, but that in reality is the 200,000 I mentioned above. The job Corbyn has to do to get in power is to convince about 12 million voters to back him and all he appears to be doing is scaring them off?

You've missed the point Hoof. My point is that - whatever your views on Corbyn - he and his viewpoints have had no bearing whatsoever on the way the UK economy stands now. He is being used as part of the smoke & mirrors campaign being run to tell us all that Dave & George's Plan A is working and we need at least another 4 years of it because Corbyn in power would bankrupt the country / get it nuked by the Russians / get it overrun by "terrorists".

My point is that the UK economy is becoming ever more distorted against the interests of the average working person (house prices, job insecurity, outsourcing of mid-range jobs, race to the bottom on pay & conditions etc) and this can and should be laid firmly at the door of Dave, George and their sponsors.


I haven't missed any point Gristle!

I don't disagree that Corbyn personally has had no direct effect on the economy to date, but the criticisms of him now relate to his perceived ability to be able to run the country - he has put himself up for the job by accepting the Labour Party leadership. It happened to Cameron before he was elected PM and it will always happen to the leader of the opposition.

As for your 2nd paragraph.... you claim all the problems can be laid at the door of Cameron and Osborne but I would say the unfettered immigration started by Blair/Brown has had more of a negative effect on the items you mentioned.

Certainly house prices have been driven up by the shortage of housing caused by immigration. Job insecurity and pay & conditions affected by an ever increasing tide of eu migrants prepared to work for less and without contracts or sick pay etc..... not to mention illegal immigrants from all over the world working here either.

I'll bet though that you are in favour of staying in the EU despite what I have just pointed out!

You judge a person's ability in politics by how they dress?

Then you get the government you deserve.

Housing crisis caused by immigration - perhaps it has some bearing on this, but selling off council/social housing (ooh and look Cameron is knocking down sink estates to replace them with affordable -£450k affordable my arse - stock)and not replacing them with social housing coupled with over 500000 empty properties has more impact if you ask me.


Who doesn't judge a person by their appearance nick?

I'll bet you didn't turn up to your last job interview wearing casual clothes.

The public build up a picture of any potential leader by the way he/she dresses, speaks, carries themselves and the way they react in a crisis.

Corbyn fails all round.

Playing down immigration's effect on housing stock is naive and wrong.

It is the single most important reason why there is a chronic shortage now and with net annual immigration increasing by 330,000 and rising, there will never be enough housing built to cope with demand or the space for the necessary infrastructure that goes with it.

But never mind nick you vote yes to stay in the EU mate.

Do you concede that a failure to replace sold off housing stock and vast numbers of empty properties has a bearing on the housing crisis.

How about those forced out through unaffordable private rents? Does this not make the situation worse?

Last year the population increased by 491,000.

260,000 of those were from migration, of the remaining 231,000 birth increase - a quarter were to mothers born outside the UK.

If the private rents were unaffordable, then no one would be renting them.

Doesn't matter if there are empty properties as you seem to think that people who have their rents paid should never have to move to other areas, even if they have a glut of empty properties that are cheap to rent.

Edited by Stuk (12 Jan 2016 4.55pm)

Where, prey tell, are the places with a glut of empty rentable properties?

I currently have one in Balham, PM for details......

Is there a 'Gateway to the South' premium?

 
The White Horse Flag 13 Jan 16 1.21am

Quote nickgusset at 10 Jan 2016 12.09am

As with all things time will tell. I think despite most of the media against him, Corbyn will help labour close the gap and even usurp the Tories come election time.

Is there any evidence for this apart from your belief that his political views are correct?

You speak about the anti-Corbyn bias as if there wasn't anti-Miliband bias, anti-Brown bias, anti-Kinnock bias, anti-Foot bias and so forth. But the reality is that it's always been there and that's not suddenly going to change in the next 4 years.

In the dozen or so polls after he got elected Labour were about 7% behind, then towards the end of last year he was over 10% behind in several polls, in one he was 15% behind and I expect there'll be plenty more like it.

Surely you accept that the public won't suddenly realise they were wrong about the guy, they need to gradually come to their senses but the evidence would appear to show they're actually going the other way (his approval ratings are also falling).

The left who loudly promote Corbyn seem to say "only a total mug would vote Tory and you'd agree with us if you weren't duped by the media". How many people do they expect to win round with this line? I could hardly design a better message to patronise potential supporters and undecided voters.

I'm not happy to see the Tories win because the Labour Party was too left-wing, but I could just about accept it once more as it would be nice to see someone give it a good crack. But lets not pretend it will be anything other than unpopular.

 

"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee

matt_himself Flag Matataland 13 Jan 16 6.13am

Quote The White Horse at 13 Jan 2016 1.21am

Quote nickgusset at 10 Jan 2016 12.09am

As with all things time will tell. I think despite most of the media against him, Corbyn will help labour close the gap and even usurp the Tories come election time.

Is there any evidence for this apart from your belief that his political views are correct?

You speak about the anti-Corbyn bias as if there wasn't anti-Miliband bias, anti-Brown bias, anti-Kinnock bias, anti-Foot bias and so forth. But the reality is that it's always been there and that's not suddenly going to change in the next 4 years.

In the dozen or so polls after he got elected Labour were about 7% behind, then towards the end of last year he was over 10% behind in several polls, in one he was 15% behind and I expect there'll be plenty more like it.

Surely you accept that the public won't suddenly realise they were wrong about the guy, they need to gradually come to their senses but the evidence would appear to show they're actually going the other way (his approval ratings are also falling).

The left who loudly promote Corbyn seem to say "only a total mug would vote Tory and you'd agree with us if you weren't duped by the media". How many people do they expect to win round with this line? I could hardly design a better message to patronise potential supporters and undecided voters.

I'm not happy to see the Tories win because the Labour Party was too left-wing, but I could just about accept it once more as it would be nice to see someone give it a good crack. But lets not pretend it will be anything other than unpopular.


I agree with on this. There were a lot of cries from the left after the last election that the masses who voted Tory were 'duped' or 'did not get it'.

Patronising people and making out they are dumb is hardly a good campaigning tactic.

I would also add that I have not seen any real policies come out of Corbyn Labour, just anti Tory or traditional left positions on every matter being voted on in Parliament. Also, the use of emotive imaginary is high on the list of Corbyn tactics.

if Corbyn continues to use this tactic, his poll ratings will continue to plummet. He needs to back up his rhetoric with substance.

 

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Jan 16 9.23am

Quote The White Horse at 13 Jan 2016 1.21am

Quote nickgusset at 10 Jan 2016 12.09am

As with all things time will tell. I think despite most of the media against him, Corbyn will help labour close the gap and even usurp the Tories come election time.

Is there any evidence for this apart from your belief that his political views are correct?

You speak about the anti-Corbyn bias as if there wasn't anti-Miliband bias, anti-Brown bias, anti-Kinnock bias, anti-Foot bias and so forth. But the reality is that it's always been there and that's not suddenly going to change in the next 4 years.

In the dozen or so polls after he got elected Labour were about 7% behind, then towards the end of last year he was over 10% behind in several polls, in one he was 15% behind and I expect there'll be plenty more like it.

Surely you accept that the public won't suddenly realise they were wrong about the guy, they need to gradually come to their senses but the evidence would appear to show they're actually going the other way (his approval ratings are also falling).

The left who loudly promote Corbyn seem to say "only a total mug would vote Tory and you'd agree with us if you weren't duped by the media". How many people do they expect to win round with this line? I could hardly design a better message to patronise potential supporters and undecided voters.

I'm not happy to see the Tories win because the Labour Party was too left-wing, but I could just about accept it once more as it would be nice to see someone give it a good crack. But lets not pretend it will be anything other than unpopular.

You speak about the media, of course they are going to do everything to make sure that the message is distorted - case in point making so much fuss about the reshuffle and almost goading more right wing labour mp's into besmirching Corbyn's character in the press.

I do think that Corbyn's ideas would lead to the betterment of the country. When asked about what Corbyn wants to do, without being told it is a Corbyn idea, then many people actually agree with it!

Edited by nickgusset (13 Jan 2016 9.27am)

 
dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 13 Jan 16 11.59am

Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 9.23am

Quote The White Horse at 13 Jan 2016 1.21am

Quote nickgusset at 10 Jan 2016 12.09am

As with all things time will tell. I think despite most of the media against him, Corbyn will help labour close the gap and even usurp the Tories come election time.

Is there any evidence for this apart from your belief that his political views are correct?

You speak about the anti-Corbyn bias as if there wasn't anti-Miliband bias, anti-Brown bias, anti-Kinnock bias, anti-Foot bias and so forth. But the reality is that it's always been there and that's not suddenly going to change in the next 4 years.

In the dozen or so polls after he got elected Labour were about 7% behind, then towards the end of last year he was over 10% behind in several polls, in one he was 15% behind and I expect there'll be plenty more like it.

Surely you accept that the public won't suddenly realise they were wrong about the guy, they need to gradually come to their senses but the evidence would appear to show they're actually going the other way (his approval ratings are also falling).

The left who loudly promote Corbyn seem to say "only a total mug would vote Tory and you'd agree with us if you weren't duped by the media". How many people do they expect to win round with this line? I could hardly design a better message to patronise potential supporters and undecided voters.

I'm not happy to see the Tories win because the Labour Party was too left-wing, but I could just about accept it once more as it would be nice to see someone give it a good crack. But lets not pretend it will be anything other than unpopular.

You speak about the media, of course they are going to do everything to make sure that the message is distorted - case in point making so much fuss about the reshuffle and almost goading more right wing labour mp's into besmirching Corbyn's character in the press.

I do think that Corbyn's ideas would lead to the betterment of the country. When asked about what Corbyn wants to do, without being told it is a Corbyn idea, then many people actually agree with it!

Edited by nickgusset (13 Jan 2016 9.27am)


Pure assumption on your part.

name one.

I must admit to finding your own opinioin masqurading as some sort of set in stone statistic a little worrying.

To many books to mark blurring the fiction/non fiction borders ? Never mind it'll will be half term soon.

Edited by dannyh (13 Jan 2016 12.01pm)

 

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
Stuk Flag Top half 13 Jan 16 12.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 8.43pm

Quote Stuk at 12 Jan 2016 4.55pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 4.41pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Jan 2016 12.59pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Jan 2016 12.45pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Jan 2016 11.48am

Quote Mr_Gristle at 11 Jan 2016 6.57pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Jan 2016 3.49pm

Quote Mr_Gristle at 11 Jan 2016 1.29pm

Can someone remind me what panto villain Corbyn has done to screw up our economy, widen the wealth gap between the haves and have-nots, outsource our infrastucture to foreign companies and foreign state-supported entities and make the housing market in the south east all but inaccessible to new entrants without a sizeable trust fund?

Keep on swallowing the propaganda, people. All is well with Dave & George at the helm. Nothing to worry about except the Reds / Scots / Islamist Fanatics. Keep spending......


Most of us remember the last car crash of a Labour administration for 13 years (unlucky for us) under Blair and Brown.

Labour then lurched to the left with Miliband/Balls and the country decided not to risk a minimum 5 year term with those prize plonkers at the helm.

The Labour Party have now appointed Corbyn as leader with the backing of about 200,000 hardened Labour members and unions.

His performance so far has put off many millions of potential voters, not any propaganda - did the sun or the mail force Corbyn to say he would not fire a nuclear device? Does the express give Corbyn fashion tips? Does the telegraph or Sky News advise Corbyn on his choice of shadow cabinet?

All of what Corbyn does is reported on TV, Radio, internet and newspapers and people make their own minds up. Recent polls suggest they think Corbyn is a scruffy trotskyist that cannot be trusted to do what is best for our country in its hour of need. He is a hypocrite who chastises fellow MP's for being disloyal, but as a backbencher he defied the Labour Whip over 550 times.

I hope and pray that he continues as Labour leader as every day he is in office the chances of Labour getting back into power greatly diminish.

People keep saying that Corbyn has the biggest mandate of any previous Labour leader, but that in reality is the 200,000 I mentioned above. The job Corbyn has to do to get in power is to convince about 12 million voters to back him and all he appears to be doing is scaring them off?

You've missed the point Hoof. My point is that - whatever your views on Corbyn - he and his viewpoints have had no bearing whatsoever on the way the UK economy stands now. He is being used as part of the smoke & mirrors campaign being run to tell us all that Dave & George's Plan A is working and we need at least another 4 years of it because Corbyn in power would bankrupt the country / get it nuked by the Russians / get it overrun by "terrorists".

My point is that the UK economy is becoming ever more distorted against the interests of the average working person (house prices, job insecurity, outsourcing of mid-range jobs, race to the bottom on pay & conditions etc) and this can and should be laid firmly at the door of Dave, George and their sponsors.


I haven't missed any point Gristle!

I don't disagree that Corbyn personally has had no direct effect on the economy to date, but the criticisms of him now relate to his perceived ability to be able to run the country - he has put himself up for the job by accepting the Labour Party leadership. It happened to Cameron before he was elected PM and it will always happen to the leader of the opposition.

As for your 2nd paragraph.... you claim all the problems can be laid at the door of Cameron and Osborne but I would say the unfettered immigration started by Blair/Brown has had more of a negative effect on the items you mentioned.

Certainly house prices have been driven up by the shortage of housing caused by immigration. Job insecurity and pay & conditions affected by an ever increasing tide of eu migrants prepared to work for less and without contracts or sick pay etc..... not to mention illegal immigrants from all over the world working here either.

I'll bet though that you are in favour of staying in the EU despite what I have just pointed out!

You judge a person's ability in politics by how they dress?

Then you get the government you deserve.

Housing crisis caused by immigration - perhaps it has some bearing on this, but selling off council/social housing (ooh and look Cameron is knocking down sink estates to replace them with affordable -£450k affordable my arse - stock)and not replacing them with social housing coupled with over 500000 empty properties has more impact if you ask me.


Who doesn't judge a person by their appearance nick?

I'll bet you didn't turn up to your last job interview wearing casual clothes.

The public build up a picture of any potential leader by the way he/she dresses, speaks, carries themselves and the way they react in a crisis.

Corbyn fails all round.

Playing down immigration's effect on housing stock is naive and wrong.

It is the single most important reason why there is a chronic shortage now and with net annual immigration increasing by 330,000 and rising, there will never be enough housing built to cope with demand or the space for the necessary infrastructure that goes with it.

But never mind nick you vote yes to stay in the EU mate.

Do you concede that a failure to replace sold off housing stock and vast numbers of empty properties has a bearing on the housing crisis.

How about those forced out through unaffordable private rents? Does this not make the situation worse?

Last year the population increased by 491,000.

260,000 of those were from migration, of the remaining 231,000 birth increase - a quarter were to mothers born outside the UK.

If the private rents were unaffordable, then no one would be renting them.

Doesn't matter if there are empty properties as you seem to think that people who have their rents paid should never have to move to other areas, even if they have a glut of empty properties that are cheap to rent.

Edited by Stuk (12 Jan 2016 4.55pm)

Where, prey tell, are the places with a glut of empty rentable properties?


Didn't I say "even if"?

But have a look at Swansea for a start, or Scotland, or quite a lot of the north.

 

Optimistic as ever
The White Horse Flag 13 Jan 16 1.08pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 9.23am

You speak about the media, of course they are going to do everything to make sure that the message is distorted - case in point making so much fuss about the reshuffle and almost goading more right wing labour mp's into besmirching Corbyn's character in the press.

Assuming you're entirely right on this, will this stop because you and other lefties are complaining about it? I've just watched the Daily Politics, Laura Kuenssberg and Andrew Neil are laughing at the accusations of bias. I'm not bothered by it to be honest, I'd guess most people aren't. The more the left whine, the less I care to be honest.

What you've done is highlighted an anti-Left force, but shown no evidence it's going to be reduced. On that evidence, surely you'd expect that force to win out? At the moment birds in a tree above my car repeatedly sh*t on it. If I don't move the car or move the birds, how can I expect things to change? History will just repeat.

Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 9.23am

I do think that Corbyn's ideas would lead to the betterment of the country. When asked about what Corbyn wants to do, without being told it is a Corbyn idea, then many people actually agree with it!

Obviously left-wing ideas would lead to the betterment of the country, I basically agree with 90% of what Corbyn says. But overwhelmingly the public do not.

7 out of 10 voters would consider voting Labour (compared to 6 out of 10 for the Tories) but if there was a general election tomorrow, only 3 in 10 say they actually would vote Labour whilst 4 in 10 say they would vote Tory. Essentially Labour's conversion rate among potential voters at the moment is 3/7, while the Tories' is 4/6.

I couldn't disagree more with your claim that voters are erroneously intending to vote against Corbyn in spite of him agreeing with them. Many of Corbyn's opinions fly in the face of public opinion. The public want less immigration, not more. The public want Trident, not unilateral disarmament. The public wanted to bomb Syria, not stay out of it.

If Corbyn wants the public to vote for him in 2020, the best thing he can do is keep quiet about all of the above, not repeat it in public in the hope that people support him but haven't realised.

 

"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Jan 16 1.22pm

Quote The White Horse at 13 Jan 2016 1.08pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 9.23am

You speak about the media, of course they are going to do everything to make sure that the message is distorted - case in point making so much fuss about the reshuffle and almost goading more right wing labour mp's into besmirching Corbyn's character in the press.

Assuming you're entirely right on this, will this stop because you and other lefties are complaining about it? I've just watched the Daily Politics, Laura Kuenssberg and Andrew Neil are laughing at the accusations of bias. I'm not bothered by it to be honest, I'd guess most people aren't. The more the left whine, the less I care to be honest.

What you've done is highlighted an anti-Left force, but shown no evidence it's going to be reduced. On that evidence, surely you'd expect that force to win out? At the moment birds in a tree above my car repeatedly sh*t on it. If I don't move the car or move the birds, how can I expect things to change? History will just repeat.

Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 9.23am

I do think that Corbyn's ideas would lead to the betterment of the country. When asked about what Corbyn wants to do, without being told it is a Corbyn idea, then many people actually agree with it!

Obviously left-wing ideas would lead to the betterment of the country, I basically agree with 90% of what Corbyn says. But overwhelmingly the public do not.

7 out of 10 voters would consider voting Labour (compared to 6 out of 10 for the Tories) but if there was a general election tomorrow, only 3 in 10 say they actually would vote Labour whilst 4 in 10 say they would vote Tory. Essentially Labour's conversion rate among potential voters at the moment is 3/7, while the Tories' is 4/6.

I couldn't disagree more with your claim that voters are erroneously intending to vote against Corbyn in spite of him agreeing with them. Many of Corbyn's opinions fly in the face of public opinion. The public want less immigration, not more. The public want Trident, not unilateral disarmament. The public wanted to bomb Syria, not stay out of it.

If Corbyn wants the public to vote for him in 2020, the best thing he can do is keep quiet about all of the above, not repeat it in public in the hope that people support him but haven't realised.

I agree with you, sort of.
What Corbyn needs to do better is concentrate on the areas where there is public dissatisfaction and keep hammering the points home so that it rises above the white noise created by the media.
He is still learning on the job and one hopes that is allowed the chance to improve.
You say that you agree with 90% of what Corbyn says -so why not support him and move away from the infighting. Will any other labour MP have the gumption to put forward what Corbyn proposes?

 
The White Horse Flag 13 Jan 16 3.07pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 1.22pm

I agree with you, sort of.
What Corbyn needs to do better is concentrate on the areas where there is public dissatisfaction and keep hammering the points home so that it rises above the white noise created by the media.

Could you name any areas of public dissatisfaction that weren't already given a 5 year go by Ed Miliband that you think Corbyn will lead on? I'd say the only popular subjects Ed Miliband didn't touch were those where the public has quite a right-wing view, so Corbyn will leave well alone.

Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 1.22pm

He is still learning on the job and one hopes that is allowed the chance to improve.
You say that you agree with 90% of what Corbyn says -so why not support him and move away from the infighting. Will any other labour MP have the gumption to put forward what Corbyn proposes?

I don't think it's infighting to give your honest view about dire leadership. I'll support him by voting for him and encouraging others to do so but you can't polish a turd and I'd say there are 200 odd better options within the Labour Party, a dozen or so of whom are substantially more capable.

As yet, I've not heard of Labour MPs voting against the Labour whip. It doesn't show gumption to support policies supported by a minority of the public, it shows a basic failure to represent your constituents. Dozens of them will pay the price in 2020.

 

"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Jan 16 4.49pm

Quote The White Horse at 13 Jan 2016 3.07pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 1.22pm

I agree with you, sort of.
What Corbyn needs to do better is concentrate on the areas where there is public dissatisfaction and keep hammering the points home so that it rises above the white noise created by the media.

Could you name any areas of public dissatisfaction that weren't already given a 5 year go by Ed Miliband that you think Corbyn will lead on? I'd say the only popular subjects Ed Miliband didn't touch were those where the public has quite a right-wing view, so Corbyn will leave well alone.

Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 1.22pm

He is still learning on the job and one hopes that is allowed the chance to improve.
You say that you agree with 90% of what Corbyn says -so why not support him and move away from the infighting. Will any other labour MP have the gumption to put forward what Corbyn proposes?

I don't think it's infighting to give your honest view about dire leadership. I'll support him by voting for him and encouraging others to do so but you can't polish a turd and I'd say there are 200 odd better options within the Labour Party, a dozen or so of whom are substantially more capable.

As yet, I've not heard of Labour MPs voting against the Labour whip. It doesn't show gumption to support policies supported by a minority of the public, it shows a basic failure to represent your constituents. Dozens of them will pay the price in 2020.


This is pertinent to this discussion.
[Link]

I'd say that renationalisation, the health service and social housing are high on people's agendas. These are 3 issues that Labour should focus on - if the press allow it.

 
We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 13 Jan 16 4.53pm

"Learning on the job". He's had how long as an MP? You'd have thought at some point in that time he'd have given some thought about what his vision would be and how he'd run his party. Or maybe he's only fit for a debating society...

 

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
Kermit8 Flag Hevon 13 Jan 16 4.58pm

This is all rather pointless. It won't matter what he does he won't get anymore than 30%ish of the electoral vote so the next gov is a Tory shoe-in.

He will then resign.

 

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]
npn Flag Crowborough 13 Jan 16 5.21pm

The plain fact is that he's just not very good as a leader.

Clearly there is a leftward shift in the membership (hence his result in the leadership election), which is fine, but you then need to have a team in place that can sell that vision to the wider electorate. Corbyn just ain't it!

There is a trait of many on the left particularly (not a dig, more an observation - there are many unpleasant traits on the right as well), which you can see on this board as well as in politics in general, that if you disagree with them you were too dim to understand their argument. That doesn't help you at the ballot box. If they haven't understood your argument (which is doubtful) then you need to explain it better, not imply they are bumbling idiots.

I understand the arguments (I like to think) and I agree with some, and disagree with many. Belittling my and my opinions will not change them, it will merely make me not wish to listen to you any more.

Couple that with the perceived hypocrisy of his closest allies (Abbott springs to mind, but that may well be bias because I despise her) that says anyone not backing him is disloyal, despite his long and proud record of defying the Labour whip from the backbenches at every possible turn (something seen by his supporters as principled when done by him).

He may serve a purpose for the Labour left by pushing the agenda of the party leftwards (in the same way that UKIP and the Greens served a purpose by bringing immigration and environmental issues to the fore for the main parties) but if Corbyn is a potential Prime Minister, then I am the answer to our goal-scoring problems!

 
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Jan 16 5.42pm

Quote npn at 13 Jan 2016 5.21pm

The plain fact is that he's just not very good as a leader.

Clearly there is a leftward shift in the membership (hence his result in the leadership election), which is fine, but you then need to have a team in place that can sell that vision to the wider electorate. Corbyn just ain't it!

There is a trait of many on the left particularly (not a dig, more an observation - there are many unpleasant traits on the right as well), which you can see on this board as well as in politics in general, that if you disagree with them you were too dim to understand their argument. That doesn't help you at the ballot box. If they haven't understood your argument (which is doubtful) then you need to explain it better, not imply they are bumbling idiots.

I understand the arguments (I like to think) and I agree with some, and disagree with many. Belittling my and my opinions will not change them, it will merely make me not wish to listen to you any more.

Couple that with the perceived hypocrisy of his closest allies (Abbott springs to mind, but that may well be bias because I despise her) that says anyone not backing him is disloyal, despite his long and proud record of defying the Labour whip from the backbenches at every possible turn (something seen by his supporters as principled when done by him).

He may serve a purpose for the Labour left by pushing the agenda of the party leftwards (in the same way that UKIP and the Greens served a purpose by bringing immigration and environmental issues to the fore for the main parties) but if Corbyn is a potential Prime Minister, then I am the answer to our goal-scoring problems!

Bet you're better than Bamford.

 
We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 13 Jan 16 5.53pm

Quote npn at 13 Jan 2016 5.21pm

The plain fact is that he's just not very good as a leader.

Clearly there is a leftward shift in the membership (hence his result in the leadership election), which is fine, but you then need to have a team in place that can sell that vision to the wider electorate. Corbyn just ain't it!

There is a trait of many on the left particularly (not a dig, more an observation - there are many unpleasant traits on the right as well), which you can see on this board as well as in politics in general, that if you disagree with them you were too dim to understand their argument. That doesn't help you at the ballot box. If they haven't understood your argument (which is doubtful) then you need to explain it better, not imply they are bumbling idiots.

I understand the arguments (I like to think) and I agree with some, and disagree with many. Belittling my and my opinions will not change them, it will merely make me not wish to listen to you any more.

Couple that with the perceived hypocrisy of his closest allies (Abbott springs to mind, but that may well be bias because I despise her) that says anyone not backing him is disloyal, despite his long and proud record of defying the Labour whip from the backbenches at every possible turn (something seen by his supporters as principled when done by him).

He may serve a purpose for the Labour left by pushing the agenda of the party leftwards (in the same way that UKIP and the Greens served a purpose by bringing immigration and environmental issues to the fore for the main parties) but if Corbyn is a potential Prime Minister, then I am the answer to our goal-scoring problems!


Good post, especially the bit in bold. This was rife after the general election, calling those who voted Tory both stupid and selfish. Pretty daft of them to slate the very people they need to win the votes back from, Labour will not win them back by calling them self-serving idiots.

 

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
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