Jeremy Corbyn

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Jeremy Corbyn

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Bert the Head Epsom 22 Jan 16 12.41am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 Jan 2016 9.33am Quote nickgusset at 19 Jan 2016 5.29pm Trident ... I'd say investment in the (currently be underinvested) armed forces would be better towards making us safer against threats to our security. Proliferation would surely mean other countries would want to follow suit. The more states that have them, the more certain it is they will be used. Britain can set an example by unilateral nuclear disarmament. It takes a disproportionate share of the nation's defence budget. We are more likely to be engaged in low-level warfare in which nuclear weapons are irrelevant. To meet the challenge of asymmetric warfare, such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, we should spend more on conventional forces and properly equip them. Possession of nuclear weapons is an outmoded virility symbol. Countries like Spain, Canada and Australia do without them and have as much global influence as Britain. Edited by nickgusset (19 Jan 2016 5.45pm) Thing to remember going into future generations is that Nuclear nations will increase, not decrease, and the countries that are likely looking at nuclear capability are looking for an edge to up their states capacity for negotiation and regional / global influence. Iran and Saudi will likely be the main candidates for becoming nuclear, irrespective of efforts to contain them, and they will use that to establish greater influence on a regional and global basis (possibly even to levy a place on the security council). Whilst I don't see Trident as a solution to the proliferation or as a deterant this kind of capacity represents a significant political leverage for a nation (even if the weapons are never used). In particular a second nuclear power in the middle east would represent a very big power shift, and one that Israel would be very concerned about. The problem of nuclear disarmnement is that you have to have nuclear capacity to engage and influence that - Countries will only disarm when it represents a significant benefit to those nations. I doubt Iran or Saudi would use nuclear weapons, without a threat to their existence, but they would benefit enourmously from the political power that comes from being part of the nuclear club. In the Cuban Missile crisis we came very close to a nuclear war because of individual commanders getting itchy fingers during a crisis. Isn't there an increasing risk that if nuclear weapons escalate the chance of human error leading to an attack and escalating retaliation will become greater. It is not cold reasoning in a negotiating room that is the Issue. Its is inevitable human error that worries me. I'd rather the UK was not be on the "nuclear weapons we must knock out" target list in that first mad wave. Besides, we have been a nuclear power since the 1950s and our position in the world relative to many non-nuclear powers has decreased not increased. So I am not convinced of the `bargaining chip' case. Spend the money on stuff that regains our economic power like Germany and Japan.

Bert the Head

Epsom 22 Jan 16 12.41am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 Jan 2016 9.33am

Quote nickgusset at 19 Jan 2016 5.29pm

Trident ...
I'd say investment in the (currently be underinvested) armed forces would be better towards making us safer against threats to our security. Proliferation would surely mean other countries would want to follow suit.
The more states that have them, the more certain it is they will be used. Britain can set an example by unilateral nuclear disarmament.
It takes a disproportionate share of the nation's defence budget.
We are more likely to be engaged in low-level warfare in which nuclear weapons are irrelevant. To meet the challenge of asymmetric warfare, such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, we should spend more on conventional forces and properly equip them.
Possession of nuclear weapons is an outmoded virility symbol. Countries like Spain, Canada and Australia do without them and have as much global influence as Britain.

Edited by nickgusset (19 Jan 2016 5.45pm)

Thing to remember going into future generations is that Nuclear nations will increase, not decrease, and the countries that are likely looking at nuclear capability are looking for an edge to up their states capacity for negotiation and regional / global influence.

Iran and Saudi will likely be the main candidates for becoming nuclear, irrespective of efforts to contain them, and they will use that to establish greater influence on a regional and global basis (possibly even to levy a place on the security council).

Whilst I don't see Trident as a solution to the proliferation or as a deterant this kind of capacity represents a significant political leverage for a nation (even if the weapons are never used). In particular a second nuclear power in the middle east would represent a very big power shift, and one that Israel would be very concerned about.

The problem of nuclear disarmnement is that you have to have nuclear capacity to engage and influence that - Countries will only disarm when it represents a significant benefit to those nations. I doubt Iran or Saudi would use nuclear weapons, without a threat to their existence, but they would benefit enourmously from the political power that comes from being part of the nuclear club.

In the Cuban Missile crisis we came very close to a nuclear war because of individual commanders getting itchy fingers during a crisis.

Isn't there an increasing risk that if nuclear weapons escalate the chance of human error leading to an attack and escalating retaliation will become greater.

It is not cold reasoning in a negotiating room that is the Issue. Its is inevitable human error that worries me.

I'd rather the UK was not be on the "nuclear weapons we must knock out" target list in that first mad wave.

Besides, we have been a nuclear power since the 1950s and our position in the world relative to many non-nuclear powers has decreased not increased. So I am not convinced of the `bargaining chip' case. Spend the money on stuff that regains our economic power like Germany and Japan.

orpingtoneagle Orpington 22 Jan 16 9.22am
139 pages on a minor politician, yes I know he is leader of the opposition but he won't be for long as whilst he may appeal to some he does not have the wider appeal to win an election. There are times this forum amazes me!

orpingtoneagle

Orpington 22 Jan 16 9.22am

139 pages on a minor politician, yes I know he is leader of the opposition but he won't be for long as whilst he may appeal to some he does not have the wider appeal to win an election.

There are times this forum amazes me!

Hoof Hearted 22 Jan 16 10.17am
Quote orpingtoneagle at 22 Jan 2016 9.22am 139 pages on a minor politician, yes I know he is leader of the opposition but he won't be for long as whilst he may appeal to some he does not have the wider appeal to win an election. There are times this forum amazes me! 138 of those pages is nick trying to big him up! LOL

Hoof Hearted 22 Jan 16 10.17am

Quote orpingtoneagle at 22 Jan 2016 9.22am

139 pages on a minor politician, yes I know he is leader of the opposition but he won't be for long as whilst he may appeal to some he does not have the wider appeal to win an election.

There are times this forum amazes me!

138 of those pages is nick trying to big him up! LOL

Stuk Top half 22 Jan 16 2.05pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Jan 2016 10.17am Quote orpingtoneagle at 22 Jan 2016 9.22am 139 pages on a minor politician, yes I know he is leader of the opposition but he won't be for long as whilst he may appeal to some he does not have the wider appeal to win an election. There are times this forum amazes me! 138 of those pages is nick trying to big him up! LOL Exactly. He does it until he gets found wanting in his argument or point of view and then he brings up another load of his old, or some new, threads to shunt them back down the boards. Optimistic as ever

Stuk

Top half 22 Jan 16 2.05pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Jan 2016 10.17am

Quote orpingtoneagle at 22 Jan 2016 9.22am

139 pages on a minor politician, yes I know he is leader of the opposition but he won't be for long as whilst he may appeal to some he does not have the wider appeal to win an election.

There are times this forum amazes me!

138 of those pages is nick trying to big him up! LOL

Exactly.

He does it until he gets found wanting in his argument or point of view and then he brings up another load of his old, or some new, threads to shunt them back down the boards.

Optimistic as ever

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Jan 16 2.20pm
Quote Stuk at 22 Jan 2016 2.05pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Jan 2016 10.17am Quote orpingtoneagle at 22 Jan 2016 9.22am 139 pages on a minor politician, yes I know he is leader of the opposition but he won't be for long as whilst he may appeal to some he does not have the wider appeal to win an election. There are times this forum amazes me! 138 of those pages is nick trying to big him up! LOL Exactly. He does it until he gets found wanting in his argument or point of view and then he brings up another load of his old, or some new, threads to shunt them back down the boards. Another stalker who would say black was white if I said different. Edited by nickgusset (22 Jan 2016 2.20pm)

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Jan 16 2.20pm

Quote Stuk at 22 Jan 2016 2.05pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Jan 2016 10.17am

Quote orpingtoneagle at 22 Jan 2016 9.22am

139 pages on a minor politician, yes I know he is leader of the opposition but he won't be for long as whilst he may appeal to some he does not have the wider appeal to win an election.

There are times this forum amazes me!

138 of those pages is nick trying to big him up! LOL

Exactly.

He does it until he gets found wanting in his argument or point of view and then he brings up another load of his old, or some new, threads to shunt them back down the boards.

Another stalker who would say black was white if I said different.

Edited by nickgusset (22 Jan 2016 2.20pm)

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 22 Jan 16 2.40pm
I found this a very interesting read: [Link] Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 22 Jan 16 2.40pm

I found this a very interesting read:
[Link]

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

Stuk Top half 22 Jan 16 2.43pm
Quote nickgusset at 22 Jan 2016 2.20pm Quote Stuk at 22 Jan 2016 2.05pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Jan 2016 10.17am Quote orpingtoneagle at 22 Jan 2016 9.22am 139 pages on a minor politician, yes I know he is leader of the opposition but he won't be for long as whilst he may appeal to some he does not have the wider appeal to win an election. There are times this forum amazes me! 138 of those pages is nick trying to big him up! LOL Exactly. He does it until he gets found wanting in his argument or point of view and then he brings up another load of his old, or some new, threads to shunt them back down the boards. Another stalker who would say black was white if I said different. Edited by nickgusset (22 Jan 2016 2.20pm) You think too much of yourself, by far. Are you above being commented on, on a messageboard? You do exactly what I have posted above all the time. Optimistic as ever

Stuk

Top half 22 Jan 16 2.43pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Jan 2016 2.20pm

Quote Stuk at 22 Jan 2016 2.05pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Jan 2016 10.17am

Quote orpingtoneagle at 22 Jan 2016 9.22am

139 pages on a minor politician, yes I know he is leader of the opposition but he won't be for long as whilst he may appeal to some he does not have the wider appeal to win an election.

There are times this forum amazes me!

138 of those pages is nick trying to big him up! LOL

Exactly.

He does it until he gets found wanting in his argument or point of view and then he brings up another load of his old, or some new, threads to shunt them back down the boards.

Another stalker who would say black was white if I said different.

Edited by nickgusset (22 Jan 2016 2.20pm)

You think too much of yourself, by far. Are you above being commented on, on a messageboard?

You do exactly what I have posted above all the time.

Optimistic as ever

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Jan 16 2.49pm
Quote susmik at 22 Jan 2016 2.40pm I found this a very interesting read: [Link] [Link] UKIP lose seats to Labour in Thanet... (Isn't that one of UKIPS's strongholds?)

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Jan 16 2.49pm

Quote susmik at 22 Jan 2016 2.40pm

I found this a very interesting read:
[Link]

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

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