Oddly, she's done exactly what I've done in reverse - watched the lies and exaggerations and decided they can't trust anything they say (which is what I did with the Remainiacs, and jumped over to Leave)

She has a wobble and a hissy fit on the same day that a large donor to the Conservatives announces he won't continue funding them due to Cameron's lies and behaviour on the Referendum issue.

BOTH sides are exaggerating.

Yes Bombardier of Derby lost out to Siemens of Germany on the Thameslink project, but have recently seen off Hitachi for the Crossrail project.

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Cut throat complex business I'm afraid and hard to tell who owns what these days.

That's how I tend to vote, as a Socialist, or Green if there isn't a socialist candidate (largely because their social policy is closer to my own views).

I think its very important that people vote according to their views, rather than because of who they don't want to win. The latter makes a mockery of democracy.

The real shame is how the system is set up so that people aren't represented at all. Even if it means giving seats to groups like the BNP. If 10% of the population vote for the BNP, that 10% deserve to be represented in parliament, even if I don't agree with their values.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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And that's a key issue. Because there is a problem with migration. Not because of some migrants, terrorism or culture, that's irrelevant, but because its being used in a manner that has become detrimental to UK Citizens.

Had the UK taken steps to ensure that a percentage of the benefit felt by UK companies from cheap labour was syphoned back into UK society a lot of those issues could have be allayed. However what has happened is that wages stagnated, government spending on public services decreased, and corporation taxes were cut - and that policy undermines the UK.

Add to that fact you have people from Poland with Phd and Masters degrees, making sandwiches for UK workers - its created a skills and brain drain on those nations as well, undermining their own cultural and long term interests.

As I've said many times, the problem of the EU is that it represents Business and Corporate interests, over those of EU Citizens.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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Whilst I fully agree with your last paragraph, and is the main reason that would persuade me to vote leave, would we not in some way be punished by them if we exit? Does it not already apply in the UK regardless if we are in or out?

Countries within the EU cannot just leave. They have to negotiate an exit within two years of a referendum - but that period can be extended by the EU member states via an unanimous vote.

Would they punish us, maybe, but then we should not be making decisions based on what others will do if we don't do what they want, quite the opposite, when faced with threats, it is better to stand up and be counted, than slink to the background and fit in.

I think the allegation of representing Corporate interests over citizens is equally applicable to UK governments as well, but without tackling a greater enabler, the capacity to challenge it at the national level is largely irrelevant. The UK must leave the EU in order to counter corporate influence domination, and then tackle it within its own governments (who have the convenient excuse of blaming the EU for policy that falls under this issue).

It also offers the capacity of 'negotiating' lesser membership. Countries like Norway and Switzland, aren't officially EU member states, but they are part of the EFTA and EEA; but these two come with obligations (EFTA grants free movement for example).

Likely I suspect is that a vote to exit, will result in a general election to cover that period running into the two year exit point, with parties laying out policy about how they will take the UK forward on exit.

But for two years or so, maybe longer, we'll be EU members even if we vote leave.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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It was a preconceived stunt and you know it.

In any case someone with so little conviction is worth ignoring anyway.

It just shows how that we should not trust politicians in either camp to make our decisions for us on this.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (09 Jun 2016 3.32pm)

And if the vote is remain by 2% you don't see that this will result in endless calls for a future vote?

A nobody who wants to become somebody. Nothing more.

Optimistic as ever