This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
General Election 2017
Visit the current forum | Forum Rules
 CambridgeEagle  Sydenham 12 May 17 2.03pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by susmik
You tell me then where all this dosh is coming from that comrade Corbyn is going to spend in his "plans"?? Borrowing has increased under the Tories and they've managed to do very little about the deficit despite claiming they would. Blair and Brown managed to run a surplus at points during the last Labour government, however, in line with sensible economic practice they borrowed to invest in the economy, but kept borrowing at a low ratio to GDP. The increases in borrowing came about due to the GFC, which was due to excessive risk taking by financial institutions allowed by a lack of regulation - something you can criticise the last government for, however it was part of a worldwide trend towards light touch regulation of banking and financial services. It was not down to government policy on public spending. To suggest it was is incorrect. When the manifesto is released we can see what Labour plan in terms of raising the necessary funds, however what is perfectly doable is using QE as a means of providing funds for investment via a national investment bank. QE can be used to fund fiscal spending without impacting on inflation until the economy is at full employment.
|
|
| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 12 May 17 2.35pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Borrowing has increased under the Tories and they've managed to do very little about the deficit despite claiming they would. Blair and Brown managed to run a surplus at points during the last Labour government, however, in line with sensible economic practice they borrowed to invest in the economy, but kept borrowing at a low ratio to GDP. The increases in borrowing came about due to the GFC, which was due to excessive risk taking by financial institutions allowed by a lack of regulation - something you can criticise the last government for, however it was part of a worldwide trend towards light touch regulation of banking and financial services. It was not down to government policy on public spending. To suggest it was is incorrect. When the manifesto is released we can see what Labour plan in terms of raising the necessary funds, however what is perfectly doable is using QE as a means of providing funds for investment via a national investment bank. QE can be used to fund fiscal spending without impacting on inflation until the economy is at full employment. That did not stop Labour piling on the debt we are still paying off..... What was the note left by the Labour minister when they got kicked out of office "There is no money left we spent it all".
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
|
| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 12 May 17 3.05pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by susmik
That did not stop Labour piling on the debt we are still paying off..... What was the note left by the Labour minister when they got kicked out of office "There is no money left we spent it all". It seems you forgot to read the rest of my post.
|
|
| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 May 17 4.22pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by susmik
That did not stop Labour piling on the debt we are still paying off..... What was the note left by the Labour minister when they got kicked out of office "There is no money left we spent it all". How many times... [Link] The first thing to note about this question is that the note that was left by Liam Byrne saying that "there's no money" was intended as a joke, not as a serious statement of fact. The joke being a reiteration of the 1965 note left by the Tory Chancellor Reginald Maudling for his successor Jim Callaghan that said "good luck old cock, sorry to leave it in a mess".
|
|
| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 May 17 4.42pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Tory Britain. Are you really going to vote for more of the same? (or worse)
2017 is the time we must stop and consider reforming police pay. Political representation of police pay reforms should be a vital issue for Theresa May and her government as we approach the general election on June 8th. The first female Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher discovered the harsh reality of policing when she achieved election in 1979, her reforms were radical and she quickly learnt that she needed the police on her side. She was an unpopular prime minister and she needed the support of the police. As Prime Minters goes she was very unpopular with the youth and they caused her government and the police some headaches, they rebelled and caused riots up and down the country. Thatcher needed the support of the police. Thatcher discovered by the help of the Edmund-Davies Review that police officers were poor, they could not afford to buy their homes or put food on the tables for their loved ones. The police faced problems with new officers wanting to join the job and those that did join quickly left. Simply they were not on her side. Police forces struggled with the recruitment of new officers no one wanted to join and those that did quickly left the job, Thatcher didn’t have the support of police officers. Simply they were not on her side. Edmund-Davis found that the reason for this was the low pay for the officers who risked life and limb to protect the queen, government and country. The job was dangerous. The money an officer in 1970s Britain was offered was lacking to comparable occupations and Edmund-Davies began an inquiry appointed by the Labour government into the police pay and conditions just ahead of a conservative government being appointed. July 1978 The Edmund-Davies review concluded that police officers such receive a substantial pay increase of 45 per cent. up until that point police pay had been poor, they were not rewarded enough for the dangerous job they are doing. David Cameron wanted to ensure the government cut back and contained the spending on policing, he wanted to change the way the police and the government held negotiations regarding police pay reviews, He appointed a new review ‘The Winsor Review’ who reformed policing which effectively replaced the Edmund-Davies Review. The Winsor review changed pay scales of new recruits and ensured police spending cuts, and officer numbers reduced. Fast forward to now 2017. We have gone the full circle as we are back in a state whereby Police Officers are struggling. More and more officers are now approaching their force welfare fund, which is a charity set up to support police officers who are on rock bottom. They cannot afford to pay household bills or buy the basics such as food. In 2017 there is a national disgrace that our officers are not being rewarded for the hard working challenging job that they are doing day in and day out. Some are simply leaving because comparable jobs are offering more money and a more comfortable life for them and their family. The simple and most shocking fact here is that ‘Police officers within the UK are so desperate for help because their pay and conditions mean they cannot put food on the table for their families, they are struggling to keep a roof over their head’. Police Officers are unable to afford the luxury of owning their own home or even heating it during the winter. We are back to how it was in the 1970s, which can be linked directly to The Winsor review, which brought in the police pay cap. New officers see their starting rate at just £19K. Police Community Support Officers and Police Staff are becoming officers and in the process of transferring over have to take a considerable pay cut to become a front line officer. While all of this is happening the cost of living is rising and police pay is staying the same. You’d think police officers were rich and that is a general perception but sadly this is not true. We’d also assume that it is only the new officers joining who are struggling to make ends meet. It is in fact across the scale and the more experienced officers who are being stationed further away from home sometimes many miles means officers have to pay the petrol instead of providing food for the table. Other changes in circumstances that we’ll not go into are also causing officers to struggle. This is a national policing crisis and something does need to be done. Officers who serve and protect us, who keep us safe at night simply are not getting paid enough for the dangerous job they are doing. As we enter two years of political uncertainty and head for Brexit Theresa May just like Thatcher in the 1970s will need her officers on her side. Welcome back to the 1970s as we prepare to elect Theresa May as the next conservative Prime Minster, with the hope that policing pay is reformed and our officers don’t have to rely on the police welfare funds to provide a meal for their family. about the source policehour [Link]
|
|
| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 12 May 17 4.44pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by nickgusset
How many times... [Link] The first thing to note about this question is that the note that was left by Liam Byrne saying that "there's no money" was intended as a joke, not as a serious statement of fact. The joke being a reiteration of the 1965 note left by the Tory Chancellor Reginald Maudling for his successor Jim Callaghan that said "good luck old cock, sorry to leave it in a mess". Common sense, facts and analysis seems to be weak currency on here sometimes. I'm amazed and yet not at all surprised that no-one on here has let any of the sensible points on here change their views. On either side. Who are these swing voters?
|
|
| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 12 May 17 4.46pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by nickgusset
Tory Britain. Are you really going to vote for more of the same? (or worse)
2017 is the time we must stop and consider reforming police pay. Political representation of police pay reforms should be a vital issue for Theresa May and her government as we approach the general election on June 8th. The first female Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher discovered the harsh reality of policing when she achieved election in 1979, her reforms were radical and she quickly learnt that she needed the police on her side. She was an unpopular prime minister and she needed the support of the police. As Prime Minters goes she was very unpopular with the youth and they caused her government and the police some headaches, they rebelled and caused riots up and down the country. Thatcher needed the support of the police. Thatcher discovered by the help of the Edmund-Davies Review that police officers were poor, they could not afford to buy their homes or put food on the tables for their loved ones. The police faced problems with new officers wanting to join the job and those that did join quickly left. Simply they were not on her side. Police forces struggled with the recruitment of new officers no one wanted to join and those that did quickly left the job, Thatcher didn’t have the support of police officers. Simply they were not on her side. Edmund-Davis found that the reason for this was the low pay for the officers who risked life and limb to protect the queen, government and country. The job was dangerous. The money an officer in 1970s Britain was offered was lacking to comparable occupations and Edmund-Davies began an inquiry appointed by the Labour government into the police pay and conditions just ahead of a conservative government being appointed. July 1978 The Edmund-Davies review concluded that police officers such receive a substantial pay increase of 45 per cent. up until that point police pay had been poor, they were not rewarded enough for the dangerous job they are doing. David Cameron wanted to ensure the government cut back and contained the spending on policing, he wanted to change the way the police and the government held negotiations regarding police pay reviews, He appointed a new review ‘The Winsor Review’ who reformed policing which effectively replaced the Edmund-Davies Review. The Winsor review changed pay scales of new recruits and ensured police spending cuts, and officer numbers reduced. Fast forward to now 2017. We have gone the full circle as we are back in a state whereby Police Officers are struggling. More and more officers are now approaching their force welfare fund, which is a charity set up to support police officers who are on rock bottom. They cannot afford to pay household bills or buy the basics such as food. In 2017 there is a national disgrace that our officers are not being rewarded for the hard working challenging job that they are doing day in and day out. Some are simply leaving because comparable jobs are offering more money and a more comfortable life for them and their family. The simple and most shocking fact here is that ‘Police officers within the UK are so desperate for help because their pay and conditions mean they cannot put food on the table for their families, they are struggling to keep a roof over their head’. Police Officers are unable to afford the luxury of owning their own home or even heating it during the winter. We are back to how it was in the 1970s, which can be linked directly to The Winsor review, which brought in the police pay cap. New officers see their starting rate at just £19K. Police Community Support Officers and Police Staff are becoming officers and in the process of transferring over have to take a considerable pay cut to become a front line officer. While all of this is happening the cost of living is rising and police pay is staying the same. You’d think police officers were rich and that is a general perception but sadly this is not true. We’d also assume that it is only the new officers joining who are struggling to make ends meet. It is in fact across the scale and the more experienced officers who are being stationed further away from home sometimes many miles means officers have to pay the petrol instead of providing food for the table. Other changes in circumstances that we’ll not go into are also causing officers to struggle. This is a national policing crisis and something does need to be done. Officers who serve and protect us, who keep us safe at night simply are not getting paid enough for the dangerous job they are doing. As we enter two years of political uncertainty and head for Brexit Theresa May just like Thatcher in the 1970s will need her officers on her side. Welcome back to the 1970s as we prepare to elect Theresa May as the next conservative Prime Minster, with the hope that policing pay is reformed and our officers don’t have to rely on the police welfare funds to provide a meal for their family. about the source policehour [Link] Hang on... I thought it was Labour who were meant to be taking us back to the 1970s?
|
|
| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 May 17 4.48pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Common sense, facts and analysis seems to be weak currency on here sometimes. I'm amazed and yet not at all surprised that no-one on here has let any of the sensible points on here change their views. On either side. Who are these swing voters? Elgrande has said on more than one occasion (I paraphrase) 'That's a good idea' or 'I could support that'. Quite why he'd then vote for someone else who doesn't support the idea, or even in fact the complete opposite shows how 2 years of 'Corbyn is unelectable' (without basis in fact - or if any half truths) from the media and sections of the PLP has affected his faculties. In fact I'd wager that elgrande isn't alone in thinking that the Labour manifesto is rather good but have been duped against voting for them. Edited by nickgusset (12 May 2017 4.49pm)
|
|
| elgrande bedford 12 May 17 4.56pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by nickgusset
Elgrande has said on more than one occasion (I paraphrase) 'That's a good idea' or 'I could support that'. Quite why he'd then vote for someone else who doesn't support the idea, or even in fact the complete opposite shows how 2 years of 'Corbyn is unelectable' (without basis in fact - or if any half truths) from the media and sections of the PLP has affected his faculties. In fact I'd wager that elgrande isn't alone in thinking that the Labour manifesto is rather good but have been duped against voting for them. Edited by nickgusset (12 May 2017 4.49pm) Where do you get off gusset trying to put words or even thoughts in my head. I make my own mind up about voting with out being led by either side. So give it a rest.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
|
| elgrande bedford 12 May 17 4.58pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by nickgusset
Elgrande has said on more than one occasion (I paraphrase) 'That's a good idea' or 'I could support that'. Quite why he'd then vote for someone else who doesn't support the idea, or even in fact the complete opposite shows how 2 years of 'Corbyn is unelectable' (without basis in fact - or if any half truths) from the media and sections of the PLP has affected his faculties. In fact I'd wager that elgrande isn't alone in thinking that the Labour manifesto is rather good but have been duped against voting for them. Edited by nickgusset (12 May 2017 4.49pm) And what's more I certainly won't be bullied by the over represented "left" on this forum.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
|
| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 May 17 5.04pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by elgrande
And until Corbyn comes up with how he is going cost all this wonderful ideas,I will keep it that way. You said last night that Corbyn is going to introduce a rent cap....how. In the same way that may wants to put a cap on electricity.
|
|
| elgrande bedford 12 May 17 5.10pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by nickgusset
In the same way that may wants to put a cap on electricity.
But how can you make people who own the rented property take less than they are asking....none workable Rocket scientist.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
|
| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 May 17 5.21pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by elgrande
But how can you make people who own the rented property take less than they are asking....none workable Rocket scientist. I don't think that rents will be capped below mortgage costs. That would be unworkable. Fact is. As taxpayers we are lining a lot of people's pockets through housing benefits covering extortionate rents. Notwithstanding this, just because you might think it's unworkable doesn't mean we should shrug shoulders and let it carry on. At least Corbyn said Labour will do something about it, let's wait and see the detail before dissing the idea.
|
|
| elgrande bedford 12 May 17 5.24pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by nickgusset
I don't think that rents will be capped below mortgage costs. That would be unworkable. Fact is. As taxpayers we are lining a lot of people's pockets through housing benefits covering extortionate rents. Notwithstanding this, just because you might think it's unworkable doesn't mean we should shrug shoulders and let it carry on. At least Corbyn said Labour will do something about it, let's wait and see the detail before dissing the idea. I agree with the housing benefit part,but as you say let's wait and see,maybe he can finance it through the corporation tax rises
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
|
| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 May 17 5.32pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by elgrande
I agree with the housing benefit part,but as you say let's wait and see,maybe he can finance it through the corporation tax rises What is needed to finance it. Other than administration and enforcement.
|
|
| hedgehog50 Croydon 12 May 17 5.42pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by nickgusset
What is needed to finance it. Other than administration and enforcement.
The housing crisis and high rents and high house prices is caused by a number of things. Mass immigration has obviously not helped. Housing Benefit has led to very high rents - a bonanza for landlords. The great difficulties in getting planning permission to build new houses. The Bank of England in cohorts with the Government setting artificially low interest rates. The dearth of council and co-ownership housing. Left alone, the construction industry and the market place would redress things. Edited by hedgehog50 (12 May 2017 5.43pm)
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
|
| elgrande bedford 12 May 17 5.48pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
I'm a swing voter if anybody can answer the question I had earlier or, if they can't, explain to me how the only thing that matters isn't the vast government debt and our trade whopping deficits? People get really involved in the `operational' side of politics: should we privatize the NHS, should we ban Johnny Islam from our shores etc. etc. etc. But I honestly don't get it, and it impedes my passion for the rest of politics. Why doesn't any debate have to be about our deficits at the start? If somebody can explain to me (and I'm being absolutely sincere here) why they're not by a country mile the most important detail, I will be genuinely grateful. Yes, yes, I appreciate this shows me up to be a thicko. Incoming.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
|
| .TUX. 12 May 17 5.58pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
I'm a swing voter if anybody can answer the question I had earlier or, if they can't, explain to me how the only thing that matters isn't the vast government debt and our trade whopping deficits? People get really involved in the `operational' side of politics: should we privatize the NHS, should we ban Johnny Islam from our shores etc. etc. etc. But I honestly don't get it, and it impedes my passion for the rest of politics. Why doesn't any debate have to be about our deficits at the start? If somebody can explain to me (and I'm being absolutely sincere here) why they're not by a country mile the most important detail, I will be genuinely grateful. Yes, yes, I appreciate this shows me up to be a thicko. Quite the opposite.
Buy Litecoin. |
|
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2025 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.