Tory's are a complete mess, forget about the referendum at the time of the Mayoral & Council elections there were god knows how many stories (including the Panama papers) and Labour should have been in a position to capitilise. Instead damage limitation appears to be viewed as a success.

Against a background of supposedly losing hundreds of hundreds of seats and a concerted smear campaign regarding anti semetism (which strangely stopped the moment that the local elections were held - have a look at the pdf of a transcript of a hearing I posted on the anti semetism thread which shows how ridiculous the charges were against one labour member) I personally think that they didn't do too badly. But that's my opinion. I wouldn't underestimate how labour are doing.

You're right about the Tories though. Imminent implosion for them I feel. Interesting times.

The point is that the Labour membership were forgiving him for being a scruff who can barely string a sentence together because he was a principled man who said what he believed. This is no longer the case, he's lying through his teeth and everybody knows it, no different to any other politician. So instead of being an incompetent leader with principles and a strong opinion, he's now simply become an incompetent leader.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

He was viciously anti-EU in the leadership election and was voted in.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

I'm not disagreeing with you, really. I'm just saying that those who accuse Cameron of lying and holding the referendum as party management rather than doing something that's good for the country... Well, Corbyn is doing the exact same thing. He's become another tactically manouevering politician, albeit a pretty crap one.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

But his party isn't and oddly a large number of Labour voters and trade unionists see remaining as a better option. There is a separation between beliefs of the self and the professional self, that's common to all politicians. Its also a key policy decision made by the Labour party to adopt many of the EU policies that have become contentious, and as a leader he also has a responsibility to those previous governments.

Did he say he was going to 'leave the EU' if Labour won the election?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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Cherry picking again!

Being scruffy is but one of the criteria where he is failing to appear Statesman like and not appealing to the voting public.

Not being trusted to launch nuclear missiles, doing a U Turn on the EU referendum (after 40 years of campaigning against it), stumbling over his words in PMQT and getting his arse kicked by Cameron......

All these factors add up and consign Labour to the backbenches for longer.

Hilary Benn last night in Andrew Neill's 1st one on one EU questioning session had Benn closing that part of the interview with "We'll be able to do what we want to do."

Before that Neill pointed out that it'll have to be put out to tender in the private market before being nationalised and the difference with the continental railways is that they already are nationalised and they are used by some private rail companies.

You could tell when Benn wasn't sure of his answers when he finished his sentences by pursing his lips and looking down. It happened with several issues he was questioned on.

COYP

The labour Party also share his vision of nationalising the Railways... it's in their manifesto.

Why then doesn't he and his party come clean and say that despite our leader campaigning against the EU bureaucracy for 40+ years and wanting to nationalise the Railways which we realise that the EU forbids, we are supporting the Remain argument.

That's quite a simple idea too.

I don't know, truth be told. I'd imagine the first issue would be resolved by passing legislation to effectively nationalise rail services rather than literally (as it would also be against UK law), as the EU rail acts are more concerned with freight transport and cross national freight rights of EU members.

Also if you focused on 'commuter' services and local services, and allowed competition for non-peak services, then you'd fit with EU rules (the requirement is for some competition and access).

Given the cost, I think it was never going to fly.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]