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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 04 Apr 15 9.06pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

From Hol poster Kersal

"I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided.

I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position.

I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one.

I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters.

I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business.

Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone:

1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms.

2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues".

A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?"

His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here".

At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him.

I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies.
But my son speaks English only; spends all of his days with his other English-speaking friends and teachers. What if this person who wished us gone were to say those words next to my son in an age when he could comprehend? Imagine his self-inquiry; his undeserved guilt of his identity. Would he deserve this? Would we deserve this as a family? Should we just "feck off"?

Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared.

I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year.

I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it.

It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."

 


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TheJudge Flag 04 Apr 15 9.18pm

Quote Kermit8 at 04 Apr 2015 9.06pm

From Hol poster Kersal

"I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided.

I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position.

I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one.

I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters.

I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business.

Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone:

1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms.

2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues".

A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?"

His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here".

At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him.

I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies.
But my son speaks English only; spends all of his days with his other English-speaking friends and teachers. What if this person who wished us gone were to say those words next to my son in an age when he could comprehend? Imagine his self-inquiry; his undeserved guilt of his identity. Would he deserve this? Would we deserve this as a family? Should we just "feck off"?

Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared.

I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year.

I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it.

It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."

I'm glad youre here mate and anyone who is dumb enough to resent you because you are from another country is a moron.
It must be hard to hear people banging on about the down side of immigration and I hope that you realise that when someone like myself expresses concerns about numbers and social upheaval it is about my personal desire to have the best Britain for myself and my family as I see it. In other words, I am motivated by self interest. By that measure, I certainly don't begrudge you or any other migrant his right to self interest. I think that the hardest thing in the world sometimes is to see things from someone else's perspective. We all need to try harder at that.

Edited by TheJudge (04 Apr 2015 9.19pm)

 

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legaleagle Flag 04 Apr 15 9.26pm

As for UKIP, IMO far from all potential UKIP voters are like that,but I think the party leadership have very deliberately played the "immigrants are dodgy" card in a very cynical and negative way (with the other parties to their shame failing to tackle it head on) , with the natural consequence that the kind of nonsense Kersal has experienced has much more more room to flourish and to be felt to be acceptable behaviour by more perpetrators, and all those who think those thoughts but don't necessarily (yet) shout them out at immigrants.Not something to be proud of in any way.

Edited by legaleagle (04 Apr 2015 9.29pm)

 

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TheJudge Flag 04 Apr 15 9.33pm

Quote legaleagle at 04 Apr 2015 9.26pm

As for UKIP, IMO far from all potential UKIP voters are like that,but I think the party leadership have very deliberately played the "immigrants are dodgy" card in a very cynical and negative way (with the other parties to their shame failing to tackle it head on) , with the natural consequence that the kind of nonsense Kersal has experienced has much more more room to flourish and to be felt to be acceptable behaviour by more perpetrators, and all those who think those thoughts but don't necessarily (yet) shout them out at immigrants.Not something to be proud of in any way.

Edited by legaleagle (04 Apr 2015 9.29pm)

Oddly enough I agree with you, and I hope you are clever enough to realise that the other parties have played the PC, denial of immigration realities card to isolate UKIP and get the ethnic vote. Let's be fair but let's not be naive at the same time.

 

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legaleagle Flag 04 Apr 15 9.45pm

Depends where you are coming from.If you believe immigration is the root of all evil and has been "hidden under the carpet for too long" by the "PC brigade",then your point may be a good (and clever) one. If one doesn't think immigration is the root of all evil, the opposite may be the case and the cleverer case may be to be appalled at the way the other parties have shrunk (in the race for votes) from tackling the nastier aspects of UKIP's spiral to the lowest common denominator in demonising "Johnny Foreigner" head on.

 

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TheJudge Flag 04 Apr 15 9.54pm

Quote legaleagle at 04 Apr 2015 9.45pm

Depends where you are coming from.If you believe immigration is the root of all evil and has been "hidden under the carpet for too long" by the "PC brigade",then your point may be a good (and clever) one. If one doesn't think immigration is the root of all evil, the opposite may be the case and the cleverer case may be to be appalled at the way the other parties have shrunk (in the race for votes) from tackling the nastier aspects of UKIP's spiral to the lowest common denominator in demonising "Johnny Foreigner" head on.


That (in bold) sums it up.

I believe that immigration is certainly not the root of all evil but it has contributed to pressure on housing,jobs and services. To say otherwise is an absurd denial of reality. There is also a clear and present clash of cultures and the division of Britain's various towns and cities along cultural and religious lines.
The sooner people address these problems and stop denying them, the sooner Britain will become a better place, and the likes of UKIP will be unnecessary.

Edited by TheJudge (04 Apr 2015 9.55pm)

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 05 Apr 15 6.00am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 04 Apr 2015 9.06pm

From Hol poster Kersal

"I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided.

I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position.

I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one.

I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters.

I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business.

Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone:

1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms.

2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues".

A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?"

His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here".

At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him.

I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies.
But my son speaks English only; spends all of his days with his other English-speaking friends and teachers. What if this person who wished us gone were to say those words next to my son in an age when he could comprehend? Imagine his self-inquiry; his undeserved guilt of his identity. Would he deserve this? Would we deserve this as a family? Should we just "feck off"?

Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared.

I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year.

I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it.

It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."

Two people out of the whole population of London have made comments that are unpleasant and unnecessary?

Well tar us all with the racist brush. And well done Legal for making it out to be UKIP's doing, you lazy, patronising finger pointer.

I have been in Croydon with my girlfriend and a group of black guys made comments about how it's wrong for a white guy to be going out with a black girl in a manner that was done to provoke a fight. Do I think all black guys are racist? No. It's life. There are arseholes in all nationalities and races. No point whinging about it. Deal with it, set a good example & treat it with the contempt it deserves and move on.

Edited by matt_himself (05 Apr 2015 8.05am)

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View Eagle_SA's Profile Eagle_SA Flag Just outside Cape Town 05 Apr 15 7.29am Send a Private Message to Eagle_SA Add Eagle_SA as a friend

Quote TheJudge at 04 Apr 2015 9.18pm

Quote Kermit8 at 04 Apr 2015 9.06pm

From Hol poster Kersal

"I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided.

I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position.

I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one.

I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters.

I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business.

Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone:

1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms.

2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues".

A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?"

His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here".

At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him.

I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies.
But my son speaks English only; spends all of his days with his other English-speaking friends and teachers. What if this person who wished us gone were to say those words next to my son in an age when he could comprehend? Imagine his self-inquiry; his undeserved guilt of his identity. Would he deserve this? Would we deserve this as a family? Should we just "feck off"?

Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared.

I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year.

I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it.

It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."

I'm glad youre here mate and anyone who is dumb enough to resent you because you are from another country is a moron.
It must be hard to hear people banging on about the down side of immigration and I hope that you realise that when someone like myself expresses concerns about numbers and social upheaval it is about my personal desire to have the best Britain for myself and my family as I see it. In other words, I am motivated by self interest. By that measure, I certainly don't begrudge you or any other migrant his right to self interest. I think that the hardest thing in the world sometimes is to see things from someone else's perspective. We all need to try harder at that.

Edited by TheJudge (04 Apr 2015 9.19pm)


I too am glad that folk like yourself have come to Britain to help make it a better place.

 


And I see signs of half remembered days, I hear bells that chime in strange familiar ways

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View kersal's Profile kersal Flag London 05 Apr 15 11.12am Send a Private Message to kersal Add kersal as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 05 Apr 2015 6.00am

Quote Kermit8 at 04 Apr 2015 9.06pm

From Hol poster Kersal

"I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided.

I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position.

I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one.

I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters.

I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business.

Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone:

1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms.

2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues".

A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?"

His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here".

At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him.

I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies.
But my son speaks English only; spends all of his days with his other English-speaking friends and teachers. What if this person who wished us gone were to say those words next to my son in an age when he could comprehend? Imagine his self-inquiry; his undeserved guilt of his identity. Would he deserve this? Would we deserve this as a family? Should we just "feck off"?

Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared.

I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year.

I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it.

It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."

Two people out of the whole population of London have made comments that are unpleasant and unnecessary?

Well tar us all with the racist brush. And well done Legal for making it out to be UKIP's doing, you lazy, patronising finger pointer.

I have been in Croydon with my girlfriend and a group of black guys made comments about how it's wrong for a white guy to be going out with a black girl in a manner that was done to provoke a fight. Do I think all black guys are racist? No. It's life. There are arseholes in all nationalities and races. No point whinging about it. Deal with it, set a good example & treat it with the contempt it deserves and move on.

Edited by matt_himself (05 Apr 2015 8.05am)

I am not generalizing. I don't have a racist brush. I don't even know where you're seeing these in what I wrote. On the original thread, I also mentioned the many wonderful British friends I have.

You may think what you and I experienced are not problems. I do. I think they are huge problems.

I can only thank to some of the others who responded in positive ways; I am genuinely grateful to be living here.

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 05 Apr 15 11.34am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote kersal at 05 Apr 2015 11.12am

Quote matt_himself at 05 Apr 2015 6.00am

Quote Kermit8 at 04 Apr 2015 9.06pm

From Hol poster Kersal

"I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided.

I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position.

I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one.

I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters.

I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business.

Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone:

1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms.

2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues".

A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?"

His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here".

At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him.

I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies.
But my son speaks English only; spends all of his days with his other English-speaking friends and teachers. What if this person who wished us gone were to say those words next to my son in an age when he could comprehend? Imagine his self-inquiry; his undeserved guilt of his identity. Would he deserve this? Would we deserve this as a family? Should we just "feck off"?

Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared.

I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year.

I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it.

It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."

Two people out of the whole population of London have made comments that are unpleasant and unnecessary?

Well tar us all with the racist brush. And well done Legal for making it out to be UKIP's doing, you lazy, patronising finger pointer.

I have been in Croydon with my girlfriend and a group of black guys made comments about how it's wrong for a white guy to be going out with a black girl in a manner that was done to provoke a fight. Do I think all black guys are racist? No. It's life. There are arseholes in all nationalities and races. No point whinging about it. Deal with it, set a good example & treat it with the contempt it deserves and move on.

Edited by matt_himself (05 Apr 2015 8.05am)

I am not generalizing. I don't have a racist brush. I don't even know where you're seeing these in what I wrote. On the original thread, I also mentioned the many wonderful British friends I have.

You may think what you and I experienced are not problems. I do. I think they are huge problems.

I can only thank to some of the others who responded in positive ways; I am genuinely grateful to be living here.


These are not 'huge problems'. Two racist morons saying a couple of Neanderthal comments to you is not a 'huge problem'. Having your house torched by NF thugs with 'f*** off back to your own country' daubed in their s*** on your car is a huge problem.

When I worked in Singapore there were numerous references to me as 'Ang Mo' and me being stopped occasionally in the street and being told that the problem in Singapore was the white foreigners. It didn't bother me nor my ex pat colleagues (the British Indian ex pats suffered worse than me), it was considered a part of living and working abroad.

To be blunt, be a man and ignore it. It seems you are getting things out of proportion.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Hoof Hearted 05 Apr 15 11.38am

I agree with Matt_Himself.... these two example highlight ignorance in life/people and is sad, but it happens so get over it.

Why UKIP/Farage has again been linked with type of episode astounds me.

All UKIP/Farage are striving for is control of our borders to regulate immigration because as an island we can only support a finite number of dwellers with our infrastructure.

BNP/EDL style people are behind these attacks and are morons... I support UKIP, but abhor the BNP/EDL and black/asian people who don't want to integrate into our society like the ones who confronted Matt.

 

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View johnfirewall's Profile johnfirewall Flag 05 Apr 15 1.51pm Send a Private Message to johnfirewall Add johnfirewall as a friend

I appreciate the alternate take on the subject, but even UKIP aren't interested in self sufficient migrants who are paying tax.

Even Labour presented a pretty tough stance on the non working sort were they to win in May.

2 incidents in a year is pretty good. Old people on scooters will abuse just about anyone, and the other guy probably just resented the criticism of the NHS.

I got abused for wearing a suit in Croydon once. Unfortunately it's easier for the system to identify non British nationals and prepare statistics and subsequently legislation where the public call for it based on that, rather than identify morons.

It's shame UKIP have undermined any credibility by failing to oust the racists from the party. For many they're just the tame BNP and that's probably even why people have joined.

Edited by johnfirewall (05 Apr 2015 1.54pm)

 

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