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Wood for the Trees.

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citizensmudge Flag midlands 09 Sep 16 2.16pm

Having listened to SP on Talksport earlier in the week and read Richard Cawley's piece for the SLP today I think AP is going to be given more time than some of us think.I genuinely feel he will be given until well after the January window now providing we are not completely left behind at the bottom of the table. Providing the team are showing signs of the style of football SP is expecting and we are clear of the bottom 3 I am sure he will still be here this time next year.SP talked about the work that AP has done bringing the Training Ground up to spec since he took over and he is obviously very keen on the direction that the manager wants to take the team forward with.Our recruitment has been far more professional this summer and both Benteke and Flamini spoke about the conversations they had with the manager as being key to why they signed and these guys are the world class players we need to take the club forward.As a Chairman you would have to be impressed with how the manager is moving the Business forward with regard to Infrastructure and Recruitment and these are arguably the two most important requirements in underpinning the clubs position in the PL.We all want to see our team go out and thump the opposition week in and week out and in a lot of ways the first half of last season heightened expectations to an unreasonable level but I feel the owners will see it as what we can achieve under the current manager when you also take into account the progress off the pitch. It is results driven of course, but as fans I think we need to understand that sometimes we cant see the wood for the trees.

 

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View bexleydave's Profile bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 09 Sep 16 2.26pm Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

Originally posted by citizensmudge

Having listened to SP on Talksport earlier in the week and read Richard Cawley's piece for the SLP today I think AP is going to be given more time than some of us think.I genuinely feel he will be given until well after the January window now providing we are not completely left behind at the bottom of the table. Providing the team are showing signs of the style of football SP is expecting and we are clear of the bottom 3 I am sure he will still be here this time next year.SP talked about the work that AP has done bringing the Training Ground up to spec since he took over and he is obviously very keen on the direction that the manager wants to take the team forward with.Our recruitment has been far more professional this summer and both Benteke and Flamini spoke about the conversations they had with the manager as being key to why they signed and these guys are the world class players we need to take the club forward.As a Chairman you would have to be impressed with how the manager is moving the Business forward with regard to Infrastructure and Recruitment and these are arguably the two most important requirements in underpinning the clubs position in the PL.We all want to see our team go out and thump the opposition week in and week out and in a lot of ways the first half of last season heightened expectations to an unreasonable level but I feel the owners will see it as what we can achieve under the current manager when you also take into account the progress off the pitch. It is results driven of course, but as fans I think we need to understand that sometimes we cant see the wood for the trees.

Oh yes, he's a genius with the lawnmower and the roller is our Al

Of course he'll still be here in January, provided he pulls us out of the current nosedive; second half against Bournemouth looked promising, but he needs to produce 90 minutes of that.

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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citizensmudge Flag midlands 09 Sep 16 2.36pm

Originally posted by bexleydave

Oh yes, he's a genius with the lawnmower and the roller is our Al

Of course he'll still be here in January, provided he pulls us out of the current nosedive; second half against Bournemouth looked promising, but he needs to produce 90 minutes of that.

I think it will take longer than expected before we see a massive upturn in performances to be honest which is why my opinion is as it is. I hope I'm wrong of course but we still have injuries so cant even begin to play the new style which is key to AP remaining in charge.Boro away is a tough game and this forum will go into meltdown if we don't secure a result which again influences what I have written the day before we play.

 

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 09 Sep 16 2.44pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

I don't think there is any doubt that the board want to give Pardew time and they clearly buy into the project/vision he has for the team.

But there will also be commercial considerations. If we get to the end of September and results haven't seen a major upturn then they will get itchy. Get to the middle of October and I think he'll be gone.

Now I don't actually think that will happen. I think the second half performance against Bournemouth should have given them a huge amount of confidence and the simple fact is we now have - in many positions - a very good first team that should win a lot of games irrespective of some tactical errors.

But if it does continue then the board aren't going to let it continue because they simply cannot allow the club to drop out of the division. I think he needs to have picked up at least 10 points by the time we play Liverpool on the 29th October

Edited by OknotOK (09 Sep 2016 2.48pm)

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 09 Sep 16 2.55pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by citizensmudge

I think it will take longer than expected before we see a massive upturn in performances to be honest which is why my opinion is as it is. I hope I'm wrong of course but we still have injuries so cant even begin to play the new style which is key to AP remaining in charge.Boro away is a tough game and this forum will go into meltdown if we don't secure a result which again influences what I have written the day before we play.

^^^This

People simply wont give the squad time to gel and will be calling for Pards head to roll in the next 2 games unless we win both...even then they'll be sharpening their knives in case we lose the 3rd!

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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View bexleydave's Profile bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 09 Sep 16 2.58pm Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

Originally posted by citizensmudge

I think it will take longer than expected before we see a massive upturn in performances to be honest which is why my opinion is as it is. I hope I'm wrong of course but we still have injuries so cant even begin to play the new style which is key to AP remaining in charge.Boro away is a tough game and this forum will go into meltdown if we don't secure a result which again influences what I have written the day before we play.


We're always going to have injuries, it's the nature of the beast, but it was shown in another thread that our level of them is only average for the PL; they can't be used as an excuse for much longer. As already pointed out, for commercial reasons, we can't drop out of the top flight, so Pardew needs to start producing the goods sooner rather than later. If he doesn't, he'll be history.

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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citizensmudge Flag midlands 09 Sep 16 3.03pm

Originally posted by OknotOK

I don't think there is any doubt that the board want to give Pardew time and they clearly buy into the project/vision he has for the team.

But there will also be commercial considerations. If we get to the end of September and results haven't seen a major upturn then they will get itchy. Get to the middle of October and I think he'll be gone.

Now I don't actually think that will happen. I think the second half performance against Bournemouth should have given them a huge amount of confidence and the simple fact is we now have - in many positions - a very good first team that should win a lot of games irrespective of some tactical errors.

But if it does continue then the board aren't going to let it continue because they simply cannot allow the club to drop out of the division.

What your saying about "itchy" is probably the crux of how my opinion has changed.I also thought October would be the threshold for AP and like you my opinion has changed but not because of the second half against Bournemouth.If that were the case then one bad performance would surely mean your opinion would change once again if taken in context. My feelings on AP's shelf life have changed simply because of the Interview on Talksport with SP and how I perceived it. I think we will lose at Boro and I feel its going to take a few weeks before we start playing with any confidence but despite that I think that he wont be in any danger other than getting lynched by certain memebers on here maybe.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 09 Sep 16 3.08pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Lyons550

People simply wont give the squad time to gel and will be calling for Pards head to roll in the next 2 games unless we win both...

Tomorrow will be interesting then as Middlesbrough bought far more first team players than we did in the window so by all accounts they should take even longer to gel

 

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View coulsdoneagle's Profile coulsdoneagle Flag London 09 Sep 16 3.10pm Send a Private Message to coulsdoneagle Add coulsdoneagle as a friend

We shouldn't lose at Boro, we have a better 11 and a better squad, this whole transitional period is nonsense. Swansea changed from being a championship team to a posession based football team over one summer. As did Wigan when Martinez took over, players come and go and have to fit new systems. The idea that it is going to take a season for the club to adapt doesn't make sense and how SP has bought in to that rhetoric from AP I won't ever know. I want us to play the way they speak about, but I don't think a change in style is an excuse for more s*** performances and any more s*** results.

 

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citizensmudge Flag midlands 09 Sep 16 3.28pm

Originally posted by bexleydave


We're always going to have injuries, it's the nature of the beast, but it was shown in another thread that our level of them is only average for the PL; they can't be used as an excuse for much longer. As already pointed out, for commercial reasons, we can't drop out of the top flight, so Pardew needs to start producing the goods sooner rather than later. If he doesn't, he'll be history.

Dave our manager is trying to change the way we play so we become a top ten rather than a bottom ten team.SP spoke about it in the interview and its quite obviously key to this season and will be the biggest indicator that AP will be judged by.My point is we have injuries to key players now which makes it impossible to judge the manager with regard to his masterplan.Your type is why I wrote this piece.You focus solely on one indicator,ignore the big picture and argue the toss on mitigating circumstances. SP said that the players bought in and even the ones sold were all part of the managers plan to take the club forward with a different type of football.With the injuries we have been dealing with since pre-season to key players and the fact that we have still only played 3 games I don't believe AP is under any more pressure than normal having listened to SP and reconsidered the clubs plan for this season.Yes the results matter and of course staying in the PL is the most important thing but they are trying to move us up into a position where we never ever have to have these type of conversations again and they obviously believe that AP can achieve it.Why then would they just panic sack that guy without giving the plan they all believe in a chance to come to fruition?

 

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 09 Sep 16 3.44pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Originally posted by coulsdoneagle

We shouldn't lose at Boro, we have a better 11 and a better squad, this whole transitional period is nonsense. Swansea changed from being a championship team to a posession based football team over one summer. As did Wigan when Martinez took over, players come and go and have to fit new systems. The idea that it is going to take a season for the club to adapt doesn't make sense and how SP has bought in to that rhetoric from AP I won't ever know. I want us to play the way they speak about, but I don't think a change in style is an excuse for more s*** performances and any more s*** results.

Sorry but that's not even close to being true. Martinez took them up through the leagues slowly building up the personnel to play that style of football. Then it was reinforced by Paulo Sousa in his brief spell and then built on by Rodgers. It took a long time.

And I think CitizenSmudge is right, if we really want to change the style then it can take a long time. Especially with the "personality" of our club is so entrenched in the idea of quick counter attacks down the wings. Changing that identity to patient possession football is complicated.

The Bournemouth game didn't change my personal opinion of how Pardew is doing as a manager, but it certainly pointed to the fact that the team are capable of playing good football and retaining the ball. But it was against a tired Bournemouth side who defended deeper and deeper as they ran out of legs. Whether we can do that regularly is a different matter.

I think it would be very unusual though for a club to have backed any manager so comprehensively in the transfer market and then to let them go shortly afterwards. He will be given some time to see if his team can play the way he wants successfully. But I still think if we haven't picked up 3 wins from the next 6/7 games that he will be gone.

Edited by OknotOK (09 Sep 2016 3.46pm)

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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View Ginger Pubic Wig's Profile Ginger Pubic Wig Flag Wickham de L'Ouest 09 Sep 16 7.32pm Send a Private Message to Ginger Pubic Wig Add Ginger Pubic Wig as a friend

I think Parish is an absolute genius for how he publicly backs his managers. It's a bold dressing room that turns against a manager in that scenario. I also suspect he knows how to purchase pressure on privately.

 


If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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