Thoughts on yesterday

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SamCPFC17 Croydon 11 Dec 16 12.08pm
Went up to Hull yesterday, and few things kept on coming up in conversation on the way back - 1. Plainly and simply, with Wilf in the form he is in we need to get him as involved in our attacking play as possible. Playing alongside Benteke through the middle as he did in the second half yesterday might well be a good idea in the long run. 2. Leading on from that, though I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with Andros' efforts, this could give him a chance to play out on the right as he is apparently so desperate to do. 3. Scott Dann could do with being relieved of the captaincy. He seems to have gone well off the boil since he has taken on the additional duty - honestly, I'm just not sure he can simultaneously be our best defender and our captain. The Scott Dann we all know would not have been so easily shrugged off by Diomande as he was for Hull's second. 4. Jesus Christ, if we're going to play 3-5-2/5-3-2, Pards needs to tell Ward & Fryers whether they're meant to be predominantly defenders or midfielders. Neither of them had a clue how much to push forward or hang back in the second half yesterday - the problem being that when they pushed forward, we left ourselves painfully exposed at the back (see Hull's 3rd), and when they sank back, we couldn't keep the damn ball. I really don't think playing 3/5 at the back is the answer. Overall, I honestly think that we should try something like this for United on Wednesday - GK: Wayne CB: Dann CB: Delaney (Captain) RB: Ward LB: Fryers (if Tomkins is fit, play him at RB and Ward at LB) CM: Ledley CM: McArthur RM: Townsend LM: Punch (more sided midfielders than wingers) ST: Wilf ST: Benteke Any thoughts?
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SamCPFC17

Croydon 11 Dec 16 12.08pm

Went up to Hull yesterday, and few things kept on coming up in conversation on the way back -
1. Plainly and simply, with Wilf in the form he is in we need to get him as involved in our attacking play as possible. Playing alongside Benteke through the middle as he did in the second half yesterday might well be a good idea in the long run.
2. Leading on from that, though I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with Andros' efforts, this could give him a chance to play out on the right as he is apparently so desperate to do.
3. Scott Dann could do with being relieved of the captaincy. He seems to have gone well off the boil since he has taken on the additional duty - honestly, I'm just not sure he can simultaneously be our best defender and our captain. The Scott Dann we all know would not have been so easily shrugged off by Diomande as he was for Hull's second.
4. Jesus Christ, if we're going to play 3-5-2/5-3-2, Pards needs to tell Ward & Fryers whether they're meant to be predominantly defenders or midfielders. Neither of them had a clue how much to push forward or hang back in the second half yesterday - the problem being that when they pushed forward, we left ourselves painfully exposed at the back (see Hull's 3rd), and when they sank back, we couldn't keep the damn ball. I really don't think playing 3/5 at the back is the answer.

Overall, I honestly think that we should try something like this for United on Wednesday -

GK: Wayne
CB: Dann
CB: Delaney (Captain)
RB: Ward
LB: Fryers
(if Tomkins is fit, play him at RB and Ward at LB)
CM: Ledley
CM: McArthur
RM: Townsend
LM: Punch
(more sided midfielders than wingers)
ST: Wilf
ST: Benteke

Any thoughts?

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bexleydave Barnehurst 11 Dec 16 12.46pm
Zaha is, and always has been, most effective on the right. I do not consider moving him to accommodate Townsend a good idea. What we really need to do is put him on a long and expensive contract before he sods off to Spurs or the like. If we need an AM/no. 10, which we probably do, or a striker, which we definitely do, then we must go out and buy them not play our best out of position. Townsend needs to get his thumb out of his arse, do as he's told and stop behaving like a sulky 13 year old who's been asked to tidy his bedroom. It's difficult to say whether Dann's loss of form is due to the captaincy or not as the whole defence seem to have gone to pieces. It would be very difficult, from a morale point of view, to reallocate it mid-season. The reason the full backs/wing backs or whatever they were, struggled is because we changed to a formation that we clearly haven't been working on in training. The centre backs were equally as confused; well more confused than normal I mean. I agree that 3-5-2 is not for us until we've at least remastered 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2. Edited by bexleydave (11 Dec 2016 12.58pm) Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)
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bexleydave

Barnehurst 11 Dec 16 12.46pm

Zaha is, and always has been, most effective on the right. I do not consider moving him to accommodate Townsend a good idea. What we really need to do is put him on a long and expensive contract before he sods off to Spurs or the like. If we need an AM/no. 10, which we probably do, or a striker, which we definitely do, then we must go out and buy them not play our best out of position. Townsend needs to get his thumb out of his arse, do as he's told and stop behaving like a sulky 13 year old who's been asked to tidy his bedroom.

It's difficult to say whether Dann's loss of form is due to the captaincy or not as the whole defence seem to have gone to pieces. It would be very difficult, from a morale point of view, to reallocate it mid-season.

The reason the full backs/wing backs or whatever they were, struggled is because we changed to a formation that we clearly haven't been working on in training. The centre backs were equally as confused; well more confused than normal I mean. I agree that 3-5-2 is not for us until we've at least remastered 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2.

Edited by bexleydave (11 Dec 2016 12.58pm)

Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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Mad4palace 11 Dec 16 12.56pm
Finding it hard to disagree with most of what the OP said. Making Dann captain was another case of Pardew painting himself into a corner, he can't go back on that decision now. Townsend is utterly infuriating, I wouldn't try to move Wilf to accommodate Townsend playing on the right though. I'd rather try Townsend in the hole and Punch on the left.
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Mad4palace

11 Dec 16 12.56pm

Finding it hard to disagree with most of what the OP said. Making Dann captain was another case of Pardew painting himself into a corner, he can't go back on that decision now.

Townsend is utterly infuriating, I wouldn't try to move Wilf to accommodate Townsend playing on the right though. I'd rather try Townsend in the hole and Punch on the left.

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fed up eagle Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 11 Dec 16 1.02pm
Originally posted by SamCPFC17 Went up to Hull yesterday, and few things kept on coming up in conversation on the way back - 1. Plainly and simply, with Wilf in the form he is in we need to get him as involved in our attacking play as possible. Playing alongside Benteke through the middle as he did in the second half yesterday might well be a good idea in the long run. 2. Leading on from that, though I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with Andros' efforts, this could give him a chance to play out on the right as he is apparently so desperate to do. 3. Scott Dann could do with being relieved of the captaincy. He seems to have gone well off the boil since he has taken on the additional duty - honestly, I'm just not sure he can simultaneously be our best defender and our captain. The Scott Dann we all know would not have been so easily shrugged off by Diomande as he was for Hull's second. 4. Jesus Christ, if we're going to play 3-5-2/5-3-2, Pards needs to tell Ward & Fryers whether they're meant to be predominantly defenders or midfielders. Neither of them had a clue how much to push forward or hang back in the second half yesterday - the problem being that when they pushed forward, we left ourselves painfully exposed at the back (see Hull's 3rd), and when they sank back, we couldn't keep the damn ball. I really don't think playing 3/5 at the back is the answer. Overall, I honestly think that we should try something like this for United on Wednesday - GK: Wayne CB: Dann CB: Delaney (Captain) RB: Ward LB: Fryers (if Tomkins is fit, play him at RB and Ward at LB) CM: Ledley CM: McArthur RM: Townsend LM: Punch (more sided midfielders than wingers) ST: Wilf ST: Benteke Any thoughts? Fully agree, but the arrogant man who runs the team will no doubt contrive to screw it up. Edited by fed up eagle (11 Dec 2016 1.06pm)
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fed up eagle

Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 11 Dec 16 1.02pm

Originally posted by SamCPFC17

Overall, I honestly think that we should try something like this for United on Wednesday -

Any thoughts?

Fully agree, but the arrogant man who runs the team will no doubt contrive to screw it up.

Edited by fed up eagle (11 Dec 2016 1.06pm)

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The Dolphin 11 Dec 16 1.09pm
Puncheon is suspended isn't he?
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The Dolphin

11 Dec 16 1.09pm

Puncheon is suspended isn't he?

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bexleydave Barnehurst 11 Dec 16 1.12pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin Puncheon is suspended isn't he? He is indeed. Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)
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bexleydave

Barnehurst 11 Dec 16 1.12pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Puncheon is suspended isn't he?

He is indeed.

Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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curlyeagle crowborough 11 Dec 16 2.17pm
Sadly yet again we looked poorly prepared, unfit and at times totally disorganised! Until Pardew gets to grips with this squad and installs some defensive dicipline we are going to continue to ship in goals week on week. The work rate and desire of this squad is getting worse week on week. Yes we got a raw deal with a howler of a decision from the referee but the second and third goals from Hull were shocking defensively. I don't like to see managers come and go but I have major doubts regarding Pardews ability to see us out of this mess we currently find ourselves in. Curly eagles dad, 45 years of Palace. Never ever a dull moment, Oh Happy Days
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curlyeagle

crowborough 11 Dec 16 2.17pm

Sadly yet again we looked poorly prepared, unfit and at times totally disorganised!

Until Pardew gets to grips with this squad and installs some defensive dicipline we are going to continue to ship in goals week on week.

The work rate and desire of this squad is getting worse week on week. Yes we got a raw deal with a howler of a decision from the referee but the second and third goals from Hull were shocking defensively.

I don't like to see managers come and go but I have major doubts regarding Pardews ability to see us out of this mess we currently find ourselves in.

Curly eagles dad, 45 years of Palace. Never ever a dull moment, Oh Happy Days

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 11 Dec 16 2.25pm
Originally posted by Mad4palace Finding it hard to disagree with most of what the OP said. Making Dann captain was another case of Pardew painting himself into a corner, he can't go back on that decision now. Townsend is utterly infuriating, I wouldn't try to move Wilf to accommodate Townsend playing on the right though. I'd rather try Townsend in the hole and Punch on the left. Making Dann captain has been a mistake but I don't know what you mean by backed himself into a corner. We needed a player who was going to be pretty much first name on the team sheet. Dann seemed like a pretty logical choice at the time. the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 11 Dec 16 2.25pm

Originally posted by Mad4palace

Finding it hard to disagree with most of what the OP said. Making Dann captain was another case of Pardew painting himself into a corner, he can't go back on that decision now.

Townsend is utterly infuriating, I wouldn't try to move Wilf to accommodate Townsend playing on the right though. I'd rather try Townsend in the hole and Punch on the left.

Making Dann captain has been a mistake but I don't know what you mean by backed himself into a corner. We needed a player who was going to be pretty much first name on the team sheet. Dann seemed like a pretty logical choice at the time.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Dangermouse Hastings 11 Dec 16 2.50pm
Our workrate, desire and heart are the things that aren't in doubt IMO. We keep coming back from adversity. OK we then tend to throw it away, but we do keep coming back for more. For a team so low on confidence to come back after "that" decision shows immense character. Obviously that will get harder to do with every poor result, so it's now that AP has to finally tweak his philosophy. Thing is, nothing wrong with being stubborn about how you want to play, but you have to have some flexibility in your approach and AP doesn't it seems. He's very like Pulis in that respect, neither one will ever change their philosophy, but in TP's case that mindset grinds out points, with AP's attacking one it throws them away. That's Life And as funny as it may seem Some people get their kicks stompin' on a Dream. KEEP THE FAITH!!!!!
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Dangermouse

Hastings 11 Dec 16 2.50pm

Our workrate, desire and heart are the things that aren't in doubt IMO. We keep coming back from adversity. OK we then tend to throw it away, but we do keep coming back for more. For a team so low on confidence to come back after "that" decision shows immense character.
Obviously that will get harder to do with every poor result, so it's now that AP has to finally tweak his philosophy. Thing is, nothing wrong with being stubborn about how you want to play, but you have to have some flexibility in your approach and AP doesn't it seems. He's very like Pulis in that respect, neither one will ever change their philosophy, but in TP's case that mindset grinds out points, with AP's attacking one it throws them away.

That's Life
And as funny as it may seem
Some people get their kicks stompin' on a Dream.
KEEP THE FAITH!!!!!

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pieceofcake Cell 36,HMP Albany 11 Dec 16 2.56pm
Whether Dann is captain or not will make little difference to the team performance or Dann's performance.Once the whistle blows it is the manager's job to dictate onfield tactics and player positioning. Prior to the introduction of the technical area,the manager was restricted to the bench area,but now he can be pitchside to issue orders. What we are missing is a player who shouts, cajoles, remonstrates with their teammates,questions bad or misplaced passes,in short someone who gets angry when thing go wrong.We have already got 25,000 of this type at any home match,sadly none on the field. What we need is someone with PASSION,and that is not currently Scott Dann.
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pieceofcake

Cell 36,HMP Albany 11 Dec 16 2.56pm

Whether Dann is captain or not will make little difference to the team performance or Dann's performance.Once the whistle blows it is the manager's job to dictate onfield tactics and player positioning. Prior to the introduction of the technical area,the manager was restricted to the bench area,but now he can be pitchside to issue orders.

What we are missing is a player who shouts, cajoles, remonstrates with their teammates,questions bad or misplaced passes,in short someone who gets angry when thing go wrong.We have already got 25,000 of this type at any home match,sadly none on the field.

What we need is someone with PASSION,and that is not currently Scott Dann.

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Mad4palace 11 Dec 16 2.57pm
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch Making Dann captain has been a mistake but I don't know what you mean by backed himself into a corner. We needed a player who was going to be pretty much first name on the team sheet. Dann seemed like a pretty logical choice at the time. I had always maintained the belief that changing the captain was a stupid decision, especially given that Jedinak and Delaney were still at the club when he changed it. After Jedinak was sold, Delaney should have just stayed the Captain, we've seen a fair few centre-backs brought in because Delaney is supposedly a "limited player" or it's said to be "probably his last year", yet none have managed to actually oust him from the team for very long. If it transpired this season that Tomkins kept Delaney out of the team then there is justification for changing it. I just saw the decision as unnecessary from the beginning; Terry is still Chelsea captain, Rooney is still Manchester United's, Kompany is still Manchester City's. Why the unnecessary upheaval when Delaney played 31 games last season?
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Mad4palace

11 Dec 16 2.57pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

I had always maintained the belief that changing the captain was a stupid decision, especially given that Jedinak and Delaney were still at the club when he changed it. After Jedinak was sold, Delaney should have just stayed the Captain, we've seen a fair few centre-backs brought in because Delaney is supposedly a "limited player" or it's said to be "probably his last year", yet none have managed to actually oust him from the team for very long. If it transpired this season that Tomkins kept Delaney out of the team then there is justification for changing it.

I just saw the decision as unnecessary from the beginning; Terry is still Chelsea captain, Rooney is still Manchester United's, Kompany is still Manchester City's. Why the unnecessary upheaval when Delaney played 31 games last season?

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 11 Dec 16 3.13pm
My thought on yesterday is that Campbell has prevented much venting of spleens and red-hot bile directed at Pardew on HOL.One can only imagine the vitriol here if we had been defeated by Hull. Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2016 3.13pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 11 Dec 16 3.13pm

My thought on yesterday is that Campbell has prevented much venting of spleens and red-hot bile directed at Pardew on HOL.One can only imagine the vitriol here if we had been defeated by Hull.

Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2016 3.13pm)

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