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T1-The Kyle sent back by his son to father himself

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 27 Feb 17 1.15am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Please!

 


COYP

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Hoof Hearted 27 Feb 17 10.24am

Nope.... not a Scooby Doo what you are on about Rudi?


bewildered of Bristol!

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 27 Feb 17 10.28am

I think the Franchise was effectively killed with Gensys.

If the Sarah Conner Chronicles are cannon, then John Conner specifically sent Kyle Reese back in time, knowing he was his father. But then if the SCC are correct, Skynet has moved from fighting in the future, to fighting across time, and the whole thing is a high stake game of chess, and sacrifices.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Feb 17 12.15pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I think the Franchise was effectively killed with Gensys.

If the Sarah Conner Chronicles are cannon, then John Conner specifically sent Kyle Reese back in time, knowing he was his father. But then if the SCC are correct, Skynet has moved from fighting in the future, to fighting across time, and the whole thing is a high stake game of chess, and sacrifices.

You can't scrutinise a ridiculous time travel movie too closely. A paradox almost certainly can't happen in reality.
My theory is that a person traveling back in time to change the future could only change it by creating an alternate timeline that would leave their original one untouched. That is assuming that time travel is possible.
The Terminator franchise went down hill from no3 onward despite Claire Danes and 4 was totally misjudged. Genesys suffered from re casting key characters. You can't have anyone else playing Sarah Conner or Kyle Reese, it doesn't work and the plot had become hopelessly convoluted.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 27 Feb 17 12.34pm

Its a shame that most people missed the Sarah Conner Chronicles. The element of time travel becomes quite interesting and complex.

Those who travel to the past, and change it, create a new future, but themselves are consistent with the future they experienced. So when his older brother, Derek, who travels to the past in season 1, meets up with Jessie (his girlfriend in the future), who travels back later, his memory of the future is very different of events than hers.

Skynet and the Resistance, are conducting operations across time, more geared to influencing the war, rather than avoiding it (although John Conner in the now, won't realise that for some time). The resistance are setting up safe houses, and conducting operations often about denying assets to the machines, whilst Skynet is targeting people of key influence and influence the past (for example pushing new tech in AI to improve its chance of winning in the future) - as well as to ensure the future.

Or at least a future.

Also, Skynet and John Conner also exist (to some degree) in the past (so have knowledge to influence their own decisions in the future). Plus you get to see that the machines are 'somewhat more complex' than just operating systems.

Sadly it got canned rather than get a season 3, because we'd just been introduced to a second machine faction, who are operating in the past, to produce a different AI to Skynet. Who are on neither side, directly.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 27 Feb 17 12.48pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You can't scrutinise a ridiculous time travel movie too closely. A paradox almost certainly can't happen in reality.
My theory is that a person traveling back in time to change the future could only change it by creating an alternate timeline that would leave their original one untouched. That is assuming that time travel is possible.
The Terminator franchise went down hill from no3 onward despite Claire Danes and 4 was totally misjudged. Genesys suffered from re casting key characters. You can't have anyone else playing Sarah Conner or Kyle Reese, it doesn't work and the plot had become hopelessly convoluted.

From the first movie, the logical assumption, is that John Conner is aware that Reese is his father, as he gives him the photograph of Sarah. Its then logical that he sends him back knowing a) knowing that he will die b) that its already happened c) that not doing that will create 'an uncertain outcome'.

Remember that in T1, in the future, the humans have won. Skynets last gasp is to send a machine back. From Conner's perspective, this makes his actions inevitable, because not sending Reese back means he definitely won't exist, and the humans might not win. Of course the other possibility is that he is just fulfilling a deterministic agenda, and that Reese always travelled back to save Sarah and Father John.

So Conner really doesn't have a choice, whether he has free will or not, the only logical decision is to send someone back to protect his mother, and its always Reese (even if he didn't know, if he can send one person back, Reese is the ideal choice - even if Conner doesn't know Reese is his father, he's the only one likely to recognise her, because he carries that picture around).

Besides there aren't likely a lot of candidates to go on a suicide mission when the war has just been won, to save a woman, who they don't know and probably have no investment in.

So what actually occurs is the machine is creating a paradox, in which it may kill Sarah Conner and create a paradox, and JC is healing that paradox, by preventing it occurring, and in doing so, ensures his own existence in the process.

Remember that Reese might not have been JC original father. JC of the future might well have been older or younger, or black even - We just know he exists. The only paradox of Conner is changing who his father may be and when he is born. He was always going to be the saviour of the human race, provided he exists. All that changes is 'who John Conner is' which isn't a paradox of magnitude. Where as his non-existence would be.

There is a reason why the initials are J C, and the whole saviour / salvation thing is played up.

 


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View Pikester's Profile Pikester Flag Worthing 27 Feb 17 12.54pm Send a Private Message to Pikester Add Pikester as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

From the first movie, the logical assumption, is that John Conner is aware that Reese is his father, as he gives him the photograph of Sarah. Its then logical that he sends him back knowing a) knowing that he will die b) that its already happened c) that not doing that will create 'an uncertain outcome'.

Remember that in T1, in the future, the humans have won. Skynets last gasp is to send a machine back. From Conner's perspective, this makes his actions inevitable, because not sending Reese back means he definitely won't exist, and the humans might not win. Of course the other possibility is that he is just fulfilling a deterministic agenda, and that Reese always travelled back to save Sarah and Father John.

So Conner really doesn't have a choice, whether he has free will or not, the only logical decision is to send someone back to protect his mother, and its always Reese (even if he didn't know, if he can send one person back, Reese is the ideal choice - even if Conner doesn't know Reese is his father, he's the only one likely to recognise her, because he carries that picture around).

Besides there aren't likely a lot of candidates to go on a suicide mission when the war has just been won, to save a woman, who they don't know and probably have no investment in.

So what actually occurs is the machine is creating a paradox, in which it may kill Sarah Conner and create a paradox, and JC is healing that paradox, by preventing it occurring, and in doing so, ensures his own existence in the process.

Remember that Reese might not have been JC original father. JC of the future might well have been older or younger, or black even - We just know he exists. The only paradox of Conner is changing who his father may be and when he is born. He was always going to be the saviour of the human race, provided he exists. All that changes is 'who John Conner is' which isn't a paradox of magnitude. Where as his non-existence would be.

There is a reason why the initials are J C, and the whole saviour / salvation thing is played up.

Jamie,

Sometimes when you're standing in a pub, resplendent in your Husker Du T-shirt, explaining time travel to a new drinking buddy..... do you ever notice their eyes glaze over and they seem to be just nodding rather than really listening?

Just wondering like....

 


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Hoof Hearted 27 Feb 17 1.05pm

Originally posted by Pikester

Jamie,

Sometimes when you're standing in a pub, resplendent in your Husker Du T-shirt, explaining time travel to a new drinking buddy..... do you ever notice their eyes glaze over and they seem to be just nodding rather than really listening?

Just wondering like....

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Feb 17 1.06pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

From the first movie, the logical assumption, is that John Conner is aware that Reese is his father, as he gives him the photograph of Sarah. Its then logical that he sends him back knowing a) knowing that he will die b) that its already happened c) that not doing that will create 'an uncertain outcome'.

Remember that in T1, in the future, the humans have won. Skynets last gasp is to send a machine back. From Conner's perspective, this makes his actions inevitable, because not sending Reese back means he definitely won't exist, and the humans might not win. Of course the other possibility is that he is just fulfilling a deterministic agenda, and that Reese always travelled back to save Sarah and Father John.

So Conner really doesn't have a choice, whether he has free will or not, the only logical decision is to send someone back to protect his mother, and its always Reese (even if he didn't know, if he can send one person back, Reese is the ideal choice - even if Conner doesn't know Reese is his father, he's the only one likely to recognise her, because he carries that picture around).

Besides there aren't likely a lot of candidates to go on a suicide mission when the war has just been won, to save a woman, who they don't know and probably have no investment in.

So what actually occurs is the machine is creating a paradox, in which it may kill Sarah Conner and create a paradox, and JC is healing that paradox, by preventing it occurring, and in doing so, ensures his own existence in the process.

Remember that Reese might not have been JC original father. JC of the future might well have been older or younger, or black even - We just know he exists. The only paradox of Conner is changing who his father may be and when he is born. He was always going to be the saviour of the human race, provided he exists. All that changes is 'who John Conner is' which isn't a paradox of magnitude. Where as his non-existence would be.

There is a reason why the initials are J C, and the whole saviour / salvation thing is played up.

Ha ha. Good one.

There is no doubt that the original movie is a wonderful piece of self contained science fiction but the wider issue of paradox does not stand up to scrutiny. If the machines could travel back in time they could have gone back and killed Sarah Conner's mother for example or the human race from day one. It is only conceivable that new parallel timelines can be created by changing past events or you could effectively kill your own parents and then cease to exist thus making your original action impossible. For that reason a paradox just can't happen as imagined in Terminator or a host of other films.

 

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 27 Feb 17 1.07pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

HOLs version of The Big Bang theory !!

 


Pro USA & Israel

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Feb 17 1.18pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Its a shame that most people missed the Sarah Conner Chronicles. The element of time travel becomes quite interesting and complex.

Those who travel to the past, and change it, create a new future, but themselves are consistent with the future they experienced. So when his older brother, Derek, who travels to the past in season 1, meets up with Jessie (his girlfriend in the future), who travels back later, his memory of the future is very different of events than hers.

Skynet and the Resistance, are conducting operations across time, more geared to influencing the war, rather than avoiding it (although John Conner in the now, won't realise that for some time). The resistance are setting up safe houses, and conducting operations often about denying assets to the machines, whilst Skynet is targeting people of key influence and influence the past (for example pushing new tech in AI to improve its chance of winning in the future) - as well as to ensure the future.

Or at least a future.

Also, Skynet and John Conner also exist (to some degree) in the past (so have knowledge to influence their own decisions in the future). Plus you get to see that the machines are 'somewhat more complex' than just operating systems.

Sadly it got canned rather than get a season 3, because we'd just been introduced to a second machine faction, who are operating in the past, to produce a different AI to Skynet. Who are on neither side, directly.

I thought it was fairly decent. Good cast and well written. A lot of quite good sci fi gets canned. The ratings war is ruthless in the US.
I was even sad to see the new 'V' cancelled.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Feb 17 1.19pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Jimenez

HOLs version of The Big Bang theory !!

You're in my spot.

 

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