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April 18 2024 1.20am

Our identity and the Palace DNA

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View laddo's Profile laddo Flag london 30 May 17 8.33pm Send a Private Message to laddo Add laddo as a friend

As we continue looking for a new manager I'm fascinated by the suggestions. The recent resignation of Tuchel at Dortmund has got some people frothing at the mouth but I genuinely struggle to understand why. Not because he isn't an outstanding coach, but because his philosophy is about a high-pressing style, where possession plays a huge part. This is not 'us'!

Then I got to thinking, what is 'us' what is it about the palace DNA? Since supporting palace from 1990 I've never really thought we had one particular style, but now I think we've stumbled across one and I want a coach who is true to that style. That is a reliance on counter attacking football, with tricky wingers providing 'attitude' in attack, solid footballers elsewhere to protect them, a number 10 who can unlock defences from various positions and target man up front who can score goals and bully defences.

The issue I find is that many people feel uncomfortable with this style and label it as 'boring'. When Pulis left I comforted myself in the notion that 'at least the football will be better'. I was kidding myself in an attempt to ease the painful blow felt from his departure. Losing 5-4 isn't as fun as winning a scrappy 1-0. Some might disagree but I like the taste of winning over gallant failure.

Pardew initially 'got it'. But his insistence on changing our style to a more expansive one cost him his job. Plus, I didn't like it. I didn't like losing 4-2 at home to Liverpool with people saying we were playing football that was 'easy on the eye'. Yeah, it looked good but after a game nothing brings you back to reality than looking at the league table. I want to win.

When Allardyce came he gave us our identity back. I for one want this identity to remain. That tika-taka football may look great, but when a team costing the earth uses it and falls foul to genuinely good counter-attacking play, full of pace, power, aggression, trickery and skill, I love it. That's Palace, that's an identity I can stomach. It is also very 'South London'. Forget the pretences, forget the good looking bollox, let's get in their faces and bash them up.

This is why our next manager in my opinion has to fit our DNA. I personally no longer feel ashamed that our football can be identified in such a way. Give me the last few months of this season any day of the week compared to the start.

So Tuchel may well be a great coach. But he doesn't fit. Dyche on the other hand, may well seem underwhelming but he sounds spot on for who we are.

Others thoughts on this will be interesting. Have we got a style? Should we stick by it? If so, are you happy with it?

 


laddo

"People say, live fast, die young. I say live fast, die old. That's me, the non-conformist".
David Brent.

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View rollercoaster's Profile rollercoaster Flag Cornwall 30 May 17 8.44pm Send a Private Message to rollercoaster Add rollercoaster as a friend

I love your description of our style and I absolutely agree with you. I think many will disagree and want more 'football'. What I want to see is the excitement that comes from breaking at speed, playing that killer pass...
However there is one fly in this champagne soup and that is hoof ball. Now Burnley played some hoof ball against us and that is boring. They did it because they played two big burly forwards so it suited them. Now some might say that is Dyche's style, I just don't know.

 

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View Mwncisee's Profile Mwncisee Flag Middlesbrough 30 May 17 8.55pm Send a Private Message to Mwncisee Add Mwncisee as a friend

Completely agree with the OP with regards to finding a manager who suits our style. In fairness though Tuchel has a reputation for progressing teams into what he wants `he was aware of the weak points the players had at that time. Tuchel started by creating easily understood strategies. He basically reflected the opposing formations – that means he fielded a 4-1-4-1 against a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-1-3-2 against a 4-1-4-1, using strict man-orientations. Later, the 4-1-3-2 gradually became his favorite system, partly going off the idea of mirrored formations. The midfield diamonds have well-known strengths and weaknesses.` He did not have to do this at Dortmund due to what he inherited.

 

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chateauferret Flag 30 May 17 8.56pm

Yes, there is much in what you say. But it's possible that the Board might be keen on the kind of thing that Pardew tried, and miserably failed to do, and that they believe that they can do the same thing successfully with a "better manager". That may not be impossible, but it's certainly impossible to do quickly and it can't be done just by bringing in a manager who's wedded to the new style together with a handful of players who like it.

To take the DNA analogy, DNA does not change instantly and turn a creature into another kind of creature immediately (except in Star Trek); it changes by evolution and continual adaptation without compromising the validity of organisms along the way. And Leicester have shown that there isn't a "glass ceiling" when you're playing counter-attacking football.

Pardew thought he was Jean-Luc Picard.


Edited by chateauferret (30 May 2017 9.02pm)

 


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The Ferret
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View Dan89's Profile Dan89 Flag Se25 30 May 17 9.01pm Send a Private Message to Dan89 Add Dan89 as a friend

Great post.

But should we be totally put off from trying to be expansive because of Pardew . I think if a solid structure put in place, then we can thrive off of, where its Mancini or dyche.

 


Another Damien Diagonal - Total Football

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View fozzaisere's Profile fozzaisere Flag 30 May 17 9.28pm Send a Private Message to fozzaisere Add fozzaisere as a friend

The best managers mould to the players they have at each club and spot the formula to utilise them.

We have been setup to play in the style you mention ever since Zaha and Bolasie came on the scene and it has not changed since.

 

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View iheartcpfc's Profile iheartcpfc Flag SE25 31 May 17 2.13am Send a Private Message to iheartcpfc Add iheartcpfc as a friend

I think Big Sam captured our identity of football perfectly and it could only be improved with a better playmaker for those teams who sit back (ie not Punch) and a manager who can coach this. There's no shame in this, being defensively sound, direct and exciting on the counter with tricky wingers is as good as playing like 2012 Barca. Just look at Juventus, no one calls them boring.

to move away from this would be a shame

 

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View sa_eagle's Profile sa_eagle Flag Just outside Cape Town 31 May 17 6.13am Send a Private Message to sa_eagle Add sa_eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Dan89

Great post.

But should we be totally put off from trying to be expansive because of Pardew . I think if a solid structure put in place, then we can thrive off of, where its Mancini or dyche.

Pardew did so much more than fail to implement (or transition us) a more expansive style. He messed up the changing room and attitudes fell along with fitness levels. None of this wass the fault of the style of play but the fault of the man.

At times we looked good and had one or two decent results, personally I'd like to see us try again but with a manager that won't f#*k with the players minds and fitness levels.

Having said that, I think the OP is spot on about our natural style and if we continue like we left off I'd also be very happy.

 


Cynic or realist? It's a fine line!

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chateauferret Flag 31 May 17 8.04am

Although it takes time to change thexDNA of a team positjvely, it's amazing how quickly it can be transformed into s***e. Pardew taught us that. Let's not go there again.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 31 May 17 9.01am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Really good coaching and tactics would allow a team to have two or three different styles of play according to need at any given time.

You have to have 15 players with intelligent footballing brains for that though and thorough togetherness like Juventus.

But any manager that wants to push us on in that direction would get my vote.


 


Big chest and massive boobs

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View Nobbybm's Profile Nobbybm Flag Dartford 31 May 17 9.19am Send a Private Message to Nobbybm Add Nobbybm as a friend

I'm trying to find the article I read on Tuchel last week. It essentially said he was very Klopp like but, unlike his better know contemporary, had a plan B, C, D, E & F in his coaching repertoire.

I think we could do (much) worse but my worry would be him becoming an instant success and a 'big' club coming in with an offer he couldn't refuse.

 


Will this be five? It's gonna be five! It IS five!

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 31 May 17 9.30am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

A club where after managing, the manager retires, preferably as old as possible.

Warnock (my last job)
Allardyce
Woy

Mullery?
Didn't Francis retire, or not get another job?
Same with Alan Smith, getting the cushy Fulham academy role?
Should've retired Taylor

Dowie effectively retired himself by choosing that club on the slide.

 


COYP

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