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April 25 2019 11.13am

Bitcoins

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Online Flag hove actually 28 Dec 17 4.24pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


Understood, and I get the point. Bitcoin isn't an actual coin that you can jangle in your pocket and toss across the counter at McD's.

But then actual coin is just chunks of metal that have less value than what's stamped on the face. It's just a way of recording the exchange of funds. Meanwhile, a swipe of your debit card is just one computer confirming the exchange of a sum of money to another computer in exchange for real-world goods...which is exactly like Bitcoin.

Just trying to make the mysterious world of Bitcoin a little less mysterious.

Well good luck with that - whooshes me!

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 28 Dec 17 4.29pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Bitcoin is a great idea and it's the first of its kind to survive in the real world. Banks are looking at taking up its block chain technology for their own purposes, because it's that good.

The big threat to Bitcoin is that it cuts out big business (and governments) from the process of holding and exchanging funds, and they're not happy about that. Ever since it's birth, they've been after Bitcoin in a big way.

Example: the NY banking regulator wrote regulations requiring anyone handling / trading Bitcoin to have a license, they then made the application process deliberately cumbersome, and then the individuals involved left the regulator's office to set up consulting firms to help people navigate NY's Bitcoin license application process. Fortunately for Bitcoin, it's borderless, so people simply left NY's jurisdiction.

There is a maximum of 21 million Bitcoins (don't ask me how they came up with that number). It's value will fluctuate like any other currency - which is why people trade it - but, unlike any other state issued currency, they can never just print more Bitcoin and devalue the existing currency.

You can spend Bitcoin in the real world in many places (with a charge card attached to your Bitcoin account) and you can convert it to other currencies when necessary - even via a cash machine on the street. Think of it as just another currency - because that's exactly what it is - that you can receive and spend just like any other currency, but the record of your holdings and transactions are securely encrypted on the internet - preserved in multiple locations and subject to multiple verifications to avoid theft and fraud.

Edited by Ray in Houston (22 Dec 2017 5.57pm)

I think this relates to how new bit coins are created through data mining, and that fundamentally by the point you reach 21m the probability of creating more bitcoins is unfeasible.

A curious side effect of bitcoin, is that whilst its value may very, the supply of new bitcoins is always controlled (as it becomes increasingly harder and more expensive to mine) and apparently this tops out around the 21m mark.

Unlike other currencies, where say the Bank of England can produce more bank notes, thats not an option with cryptocurrency.

 


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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 28 Dec 17 5.16pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Unlike other currencies, where say the Bank of England can produce more bank notes, thats not an option with cryptocurrency.

Exactly. And, further, Bitcoin cannot be destabilized by the haplessness or stupidity of a single government (or its voting population).

[E.G. US Dollar spot value over the last year]

Edited by Ray in Houston (28 Dec 2017 5.22pm)

Attachment: CUR.bmp (676.93Kb)

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View .TUX.'s Profile .TUX. Flag 28 Dec 17 6.02pm Send a Private Message to .TUX. Add .TUX. as a friend

Originally posted by ZIGnZAG

Had a quick look into all these "virtual currencies" the other day and it all seems a bit complicated (or maybe I'm just thick!)
It seems to be well known, and an almost accepted fact that people will try and steal your pot of gold. So there is a lot of information on protecting it, by paper wallets you can create yourself, or even by purchasing special devices to store it on.
Not sure if that's a bit of a con to spend more money on another device.
Or... just making you worry more about some virtual currency than your actual bank account information your passing over to receive it.
There a so many different sites, or possible things to invest/purchase, how do you know your not just willingly sending your bank details to the wrong person?

I use a Trezor, it cost around £80.
The second i complete any transaction i take it from the exchange and send it to my Trezor.

'Coinbase' is an easy exchange to get started.

 


Buy Litecoin.

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View .TUX.'s Profile .TUX. Flag 28 Dec 17 6.21pm Send a Private Message to .TUX. Add .TUX. as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


I totally understand - and I share - your concerns about the underlying value of Bitcoin (which is why I don't own any...yet). But if you put that aside (difficult, I know) and just think of Bitcoin as a way of recording who owns what, then it becomes just like any other currency.

For example, countries used to issue currency based on the value of its gold reserves - the gold standard - so that the piece of paper (cloth, actually) that you have was actually an IOU for that much gold from the central bank's reserve. That was abandoned years ago and, now, countries issue currency on the basis that "they're good for it". So how does this differ from Bitcoin?

One notable difference is that Bitcoin has a limited supply: 21 million pieces. There will never be any more, so the worth of each coin will increase once that 21 million is entirely in circulation. Conversely, the Bank of England could mint a few hundred million more pound coins, devaluing what you've got in your wallet and bank in the process.

Lastly, the Bitcoin ledger is maintained in multiple locations on the web and verified constantly by the miners who independently verify Bitcoin changing hands and then validate that with other miners so as to render Bitcoin fraud as impossible. Time will tell on that front, but 2008 taught us all that a bank can go bust and take your money with it which is something not possible with Bitcoin's system that bypasses banks and central governments who can devalue or destroy the value of your money.

Of course, if the North Koreans take down the internet, then your Bitcoin is f***ed along with your actual coin!

Edited by Ray in Houston (28 Dec 2017 3.34pm)

.......but only to the benefit of the banksters, as usual.

Other than that, top post.

 


Buy Litecoin.

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View Ketteridge's Profile Ketteridge Flag Brighton 28 Dec 17 6.23pm Send a Private Message to Ketteridge Add Ketteridge as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Exactly. And, further, Bitcoin cannot be destabilized by the haplessness or stupidity of a single government (or its voting population).

[E.G. US Dollar spot value over the last year]

Edited by Ray in Houston (28 Dec 2017 5.22pm)


OK that makes sense as it cuts across nations it can't be devalued for a national interest. However it does mean no central bank or government to bail it out either if it hits problems.
So if the tech can be employed by mainstream banks is the future of Bitcoin based on peoples trust or mistrust of central banks and government.


 


One supporter of hacking argued that without it "you will do away with the courage and pluck of the game, and I will be bound to bring over a lot of Frenchmen who would beat you with a week's practice -Blackheath secretary at first meeting of the F.A

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View Ketteridge's Profile Ketteridge Flag Brighton 28 Dec 17 6.34pm Send a Private Message to Ketteridge Add Ketteridge as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I think this relates to how new bit coins are created through data mining, and that fundamentally by the point you reach 21m the probability of creating more bitcoins is unfeasible.

A curious side effect of bitcoin, is that whilst its value may very, the supply of new bitcoins is always controlled (as it becomes increasingly harder and more expensive to mine) and apparently this tops out around the 21m mark.

Unlike other currencies, where say the Bank of England can produce more bank notes, thats not an option with cryptocurrency.

My understanding is data mining is the payment for allowing you computer to be used to verify the block chain and transactions. So what happens when we hit the 21m mark do transactions no longer need verifying or does it get done for free.

 


One supporter of hacking argued that without it "you will do away with the courage and pluck of the game, and I will be bound to bring over a lot of Frenchmen who would beat you with a week's practice -Blackheath secretary at first meeting of the F.A

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View .TUX.'s Profile .TUX. Flag 28 Dec 17 6.46pm Send a Private Message to .TUX. Add .TUX. as a friend

Originally posted by Ketteridge


OK that makes sense as it cuts across nations it can't be devalued for a national interest. However it does mean no central bank or government to bail it out either if it hits problems.
So if the tech can be employed by mainstream banks is the future of Bitcoin based on peoples trust or mistrust of central banks and government.


Who do the (privately owned) Central Banks bail-out? Other banks.
Who pays to keep these failed banks and their never-ending streams of fraud and corruption in business?
We do.
Who tells you that we'll face armageddon if the financial system were to collapse?
Those that cause the problems in the first place.
Who is against the rise of crypto's because it's AN HONEST alternative to what we have had for many years now forced upon us?
The banks.

We have been absolutely fleeced for decades. Time for a change.

 


Buy Litecoin.

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View .TUX.'s Profile .TUX. Flag 28 Dec 17 7.03pm Send a Private Message to .TUX. Add .TUX. as a friend

Originally posted by Ketteridge

My understanding is data mining is the payment for allowing you computer to be used to verify the block chain and transactions. So what happens when we hit the 21m mark do transactions no longer need verifying or does it get done for free.

Every transaction will forever be verified on the Blockchain by the many computers in the system.
Any fee will be minute compared to the current system as it takes out 'the middle-man', ie the banks.


 


Buy Litecoin.

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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 28 Dec 17 10.03pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Ketteridge

OK that makes sense as it cuts across nations it can't be devalued for a national interest. However it does mean no central bank or government to bail it out either if it hits problems.
So if the tech can be employed by mainstream banks is the future of Bitcoin based on peoples trust or mistrust of central banks and government.

The ideal for cryptocurrencies was to create a way of paying for s*** online without banks or governments being able to levy fees and taxes. Bitcoin has achieved this goal.

Where it goes from here, only time will tell.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 28 Dec 17 10.16pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by .TUX.

Who do the (privately owned) Central Banks bail-out? Other banks.
Who pays to keep these failed banks and their never-ending streams of fraud and corruption in business?
We do.
Who tells you that we'll face armageddon if the financial system were to collapse?
Those that cause the problems in the first place.
Who is against the rise of crypto's because it's AN HONEST alternative to what we have had for many years now forced upon us?
The banks.

We have been absolutely fleeced for decades. Time for a change.


Comrade Tux is exactly right. Banks used to perform a valuable service - giving people somewhere to physically deposit money, gold, stock certificates, bearer bonds and the like. Banks would then lend that money - physically - to other customers to buy houses, or cars or start businesses. That went away long ago.

Now, you get paid electronically and your money exists only as a record on a network somewhere (in India). Banks have long-since divorced actual holdings from what they can lend, and so lend multiples of their actual deposits to generate greater income for themselves.

So we're basically living in a Bitcoin world now with the traditional banking system; except that the system is rigged for them and against you. That's why, in 2008, pretty much everywhere (except Iceland) bailed out the banks and put people in jail or on the street.

Bitcoin is completely neutral as it is truly a peer-to-peer transaction system without any intermediaries. The collective keeps the records and gives Bitcoin its underlying value. This is why banks and governments hate it, because it chops them off at the nads and threatens to put an end to their rigged game.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View the.universal's Profile the.universal 28 Dec 17 11.11pm Send a Private Message to the.universal Add the.universal as a friend

This thread leads me to believe that no-one really understands bitcoin. Some people profess to know a bit, but actually they only partially understand a small part of it (including me).

So let’s stop pretending we’re know even the basics.

 


Vive le Roy!

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