Empire Journalism: Venezuela, the US and John McCa

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Bert the Head Epsom 07 Sep 18 10.54am
Media Lens has produced an interesting article on the recent mainstream reporting of Venezuela and John McCain. For anyone interesting in the way news is framed for social consumption, it is worth reading. [Link]
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Bert the Head

Epsom 07 Sep 18 10.54am

Media Lens has produced an interesting article on the recent mainstream reporting of Venezuela and John McCain. For anyone interesting in the way news is framed for social consumption, it is worth reading.

[Link]

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 07 Sep 18 7.48pm
I read the article and found it interesting. However, I find it biased in its treatment of the US. It's overly simplistic to the point of agreeing with people who clearly have silly agendas of their own. Undoubtedly the US has a big part to play in the state of Venezuela, however, clearly the Venezuelan government has played a large part in the country's demise. As for McCain - when he bombed Vietnam he was following orders and probably believed he was doing the right thing. Obviously he stuck by his convictions. He is basically being labelled a murderer by some here. That is too much for me - especially as he only died recently. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 07 Sep 18 7.48pm

I read the article and found it interesting. However, I find it biased in its treatment of the US. It's overly simplistic to the point of agreeing with people who clearly have silly agendas of their own.
Undoubtedly the US has a big part to play in the state of Venezuela, however, clearly the Venezuelan government has played a large part in the country's demise.
As for McCain - when he bombed Vietnam he was following orders and probably believed he was doing the right thing. Obviously he stuck by his convictions. He is basically being labelled a murderer by some here. That is too much for me - especially as he only died recently.

Red and Blue Army!

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Bert the Head Epsom 08 Sep 18 10.37pm
I am very grateful you took the time to read the piece. The article does acknowledge the role of the failures of the Venezuelan government. It points out that the role of the USA sanctions has not been covered in the reporting - which you yourself admit is important I cannot see how the article is simplistic when the point is that the coverage has omitted a point that you agree. The point of the article is that this important dynamic is missing. Regarding the death of Mr McCann. He is responsible for a lot of people dying and I have have very little sympathy with that line of argument that he was just following orders. Edited by Bert the Head (09 Sep 2018 12.16am) Edited by Bert the Head (09 Sep 2018 12.17am)
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Bert the Head

Epsom 08 Sep 18 10.37pm

I am very grateful you took the time to read the piece.

The article does acknowledge the role of the failures of the Venezuelan government. It points out that the role of the USA sanctions has not been covered in the reporting - which you yourself admit is important

I cannot see how the article is simplistic when the point is that the coverage has omitted a point that you agree. The point of the article is that this important dynamic is missing.

Regarding the death of Mr McCann. He is responsible for a lot of people dying and I have have very little sympathy with that line of argument that he was just following orders.

Edited by Bert the Head (09 Sep 2018 12.16am)

Edited by Bert the Head (09 Sep 2018 12.17am)

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 09 Sep 18 1.21am
Originally posted by Bert the Head I am very grateful you took the time to read the piece. The article does acknowledge the role of the failures of the Venezuelan government. It points out that the role of the USA sanctions has not been covered in the reporting - which you yourself admit is important I cannot see how the article is simplistic when the point is that the coverage has omitted a point that you agree. The point of the article is that this important dynamic is missing. Regarding the death of Mr McCann. He is responsible for a lot of people dying and I have have very little sympathy with that line of argument that he was just following orders. Edited by Bert the Head (09 Sep 2018 12.16am) Edited by Bert the Head (09 Sep 2018 12.17am) Yes I heard Arfur wasn't too happy.... Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 09 Sep 18 1.21am

Originally posted by Bert the Head

I am very grateful you took the time to read the piece.

I cannot see how the article is simplistic when the point is that the coverage has omitted a point that you agree. The point of the article is that this important dynamic is missing.

Regarding the death of Mr McCann. He is responsible for a lot of people dying and I have have very little sympathy with that line of argument that he was just following orders.

Edited by Bert the Head (09 Sep 2018 12.16am)

Edited by Bert the Head (09 Sep 2018 12.17am)

Yes I heard Arfur wasn't too happy....

Pro USA & Israel

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 Sep 18 1.16pm
This article seems to want to counter the notion of fake news with its term Empire Journalism. I can't really see it catching on but it is good for thought. Can hardly say that the USA is always viewed positively by the press and never criticised. For a silly example there are also news agencies such as RT, Al Jazeera and even news stations such as Euronews. These do not promote a US agenda. As an ex-forces member myself, soldiers who killed people can hardly be considered murderers, as long as they followed the appropriate rules of engagement. I doubt McCain went around cheering as he bombed the hell out of North Vietnam. By this type of argument every RAF pilot from WWII is a murderer. They were doing a job, which in hindsight may or may not have been the ethical thing to do. However, refuse to do it and they would have been court-martialled and shot. But most, like McCain, probably genuinely thought they were doing the right thing. Without being rude or personal, didn't any of your family fight in any of the wars? Mine did; they killed people and they are not murderers, although they had regrets. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 Sep 18 1.16pm

This article seems to want to counter the notion of fake news with its term Empire Journalism. I can't really see it catching on but it is good for thought. Can hardly say that the USA is always viewed positively by the press and never criticised. For a silly example there are also news agencies such as RT, Al Jazeera and even news stations such as Euronews. These do not promote a US agenda.
As an ex-forces member myself, soldiers who killed people can hardly be considered murderers, as long as they followed the appropriate rules of engagement. I doubt McCain went around cheering as he bombed the hell out of North Vietnam.
By this type of argument every RAF pilot from WWII is a murderer. They were doing a job, which in hindsight may or may not have been the ethical thing to do. However, refuse to do it and they would have been court-martialled and shot. But most, like McCain, probably genuinely thought they were doing the right thing.
Without being rude or personal, didn't any of your family fight in any of the wars? Mine did; they killed people and they are not murderers, although they had regrets.

Red and Blue Army!

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steeleye20 Croydon 09 Sep 18 8.07pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC This article seems to want to counter the notion of fake news with its term Empire Journalism. I can't really see it catching on but it is good for thought. Can hardly say that the USA is always viewed positively by the press and never criticised. For a silly example there are also news agencies such as RT, Al Jazeera and even news stations such as Euronews. These do not promote a US agenda. As an ex-forces member myself, soldiers who killed people can hardly be considered murderers, as long as they followed the appropriate rules of engagement. I doubt McCain went around cheering as he bombed the hell out of North Vietnam. By this type of argument every RAF pilot from WWII is a murderer. They were doing a job, which in hindsight may or may not have been the ethical thing to do. However, refuse to do it and they would have been court-martialled and shot. But most, like McCain, probably genuinely thought they were doing the right thing. Without being rude or personal, didn't any of your family fight in any of the wars? Mine did; they killed people and they are not murderers, although they had regrets. By this type of argument every RAF pilot from WWII is a murderer. My uncle, a retired army major, was disgusted at the allied bombing of innocent civilans, so were many people and they were the only service not to receive a medal. It is very difficult to point the finger and say they are definitely still doing it, as they always parade the 'national security' lie. Why does it not concern us more, do you want this sort of thing in your name? Surely not.
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steeleye20

Croydon 09 Sep 18 8.07pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

By this type of argument every RAF pilot from WWII is a murderer.

My uncle, a retired army major, was disgusted at the allied bombing of innocent civilans, so were many people and they were the only service not to receive a medal.

It is very difficult to point the finger and say they are definitely still doing it, as they always parade the 'national security' lie.

Why does it not concern us more, do you want this sort of thing in your name?

Surely not.

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chris123 hove actually 09 Sep 18 8.42pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 By this type of argument every RAF pilot from WWII is a murderer. My uncle, a retired army major, was disgusted at the allied bombing of innocent civilans, so were many people and they were the only service not to receive a medal. It is very difficult to point the finger and say they are definitely still doing it, as they always parade the 'national security' lie. Why does it not concern us more, do you want this sort of thing in your name? Surely not. Which service didn't receive a medal?
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chris123

hove actually 09 Sep 18 8.42pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

By this type of argument every RAF pilot from WWII is a murderer.

My uncle, a retired army major, was disgusted at the allied bombing of innocent civilans, so were many people and they were the only service not to receive a medal.

It is very difficult to point the finger and say they are definitely still doing it, as they always parade the 'national security' lie.

Why does it not concern us more, do you want this sort of thing in your name?

Surely not.

Which service didn't receive a medal?

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 Sep 18 8.49pm
Bomber Harris' tactics are often debated but I'm sorry to say that I don't believe RAF pilots/ crew are murderers for carrying out bombing missions. Nor would I call a recently deceased politician a murderer - unless I truly knew it. You are one of the not in my name people fair enough. However, your retired relative, as a soldier should realise that it wasn't only the RAF that killed civilians. Artillery and small arms did exactly the same (i.e. killed civilians) on a smaller scale. Was an artillery man a murderer if his shell accidently hit civilians? - I don't think so. People in combat are not murderers unless they start shooting innocent people knowingly - which is the same distinction for civilians too when you consider it. You need mens rea (intent) to murder. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 Sep 18 8.49pm

Bomber Harris' tactics are often debated but I'm sorry to say that I don't believe RAF pilots/ crew are murderers for carrying out bombing missions.
Nor would I call a recently deceased politician a murderer - unless I truly knew it.
You are one of the not in my name people fair enough. However, your retired relative, as a soldier should realise that it wasn't only the RAF that killed civilians. Artillery and small arms did exactly the same (i.e. killed civilians) on a smaller scale. Was an artillery man a murderer if his shell accidently hit civilians? - I don't think so.
People in combat are not murderers unless they start shooting innocent people knowingly - which is the same distinction for civilians too when you consider it. You need mens rea (intent) to murder.

Red and Blue Army!

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steeleye20 Croydon 09 Sep 18 8.56pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Bomber Harris' tactics are often debated but I'm sorry to say that I don't believe RAF pilots/ crew are murderers for carrying out bombing missions. Nor would I call a recently deceased politician a murderer - unless I truly knew it. You are one of the not in my name people fair enough. However, your retired relative, as a soldier should realise that it wasn't only the RAF that killed civilians. Artillery and small arms did exactly the same (i.e. killed civilians) on a smaller scale. Was an artillery man a murderer if his shell accidently hit civilians? - I don't think so. People in combat are not murderers unless they start shooting innocent people knowingly - which is the same distinction for civilians too when you consider it. You need mens rea (intent) to murder. How do you regard the actions of the 'coalition'? Have they not bombed and maimed innocent peoples particularly Libya Syria Yemen? What democratic control are they under? And how will those people avenge it, surely by terrorism on our streets.
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steeleye20

Croydon 09 Sep 18 8.56pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

How do you regard the actions of the 'coalition'?

Have they not bombed and maimed innocent peoples particularly Libya Syria Yemen?

What democratic control are they under?

And how will those people avenge it, surely by terrorism on our streets.

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cryrst The garden of England 09 Sep 18 9.57pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 How do you regard the actions of the 'coalition'? Have they not bombed and maimed innocent peoples particularly Libya Syria Yemen? What democratic control are they under? And how will those people avenge it, surely by terrorism on our streets. The point being Do you beleive they should avenge it?
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cryrst

The garden of England 09 Sep 18 9.57pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

How do you regard the actions of the 'coalition'?

Have they not bombed and maimed innocent peoples particularly Libya Syria Yemen?

What democratic control are they under?

And how will those people avenge it, surely by terrorism on our streets.

The point being
Do you beleive they should avenge it?

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 10 Sep 18 11.03am
Originally posted by chris123 Which service didn't receive a medal? Bomber Command was the only branch of the services denied a campaign medal. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 10 Sep 18 11.03am

Originally posted by chris123

Which service didn't receive a medal?

Bomber Command was the only branch of the services denied a campaign medal.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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chris123 hove actually 10 Sep 18 11.21am
Originally posted by Cucking Funt Bomber Command was the only branch of the services denied a campaign medal. Many thanks for clearing that up.
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chris123

hove actually 10 Sep 18 11.21am

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Bomber Command was the only branch of the services denied a campaign medal.

Many thanks for clearing that up.

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