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July 17 2019 9.48am

Neal Maupay (suggestion)

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View ThatPetrolRelation's Profile ThatPetrolRelation Flag Ottawa 10 Jan 19 7.20pm Send a Private Message to ThatPetrolRelation Add ThatPetrolRelation as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Maupay(costs 15M+) compared to Ligue 2 top scorer ' by bexleydave

Then we differ as what you've described is exactly the sort of person that I would hire

In my field (Policy Analysis/Program management) staff having confidence is essential, overconfidence can be dangerous, but self-belief to the point of papal infallibility is catastrophic. Anyone who told me they'd never been wrong in any of their assessments would never get past the first interview.

I've had candidates tell me they wanted my job eventually (kudos to them). But I've never had anyone say that through brilliant management they could make my organization among the best in the world in 10 years because they have a gift for the business

I suppose unparalleled and unearned self-confidence can be a big asset on the pitch, but I'm not sure that's true in the boardroom.

Though I would love to read about Manager Mattteo taking Dulwich Hamlet up the National League South table through incisive purchases of unheralded talent and sound financial management.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Online Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 10 Jan 19 8.00pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by ThatPetrolRelation

In my field (Policy Analysis/Program management) staff having confidence is essential, overconfidence can be dangerous, but self-belief to the point of papal infallibility is catastrophic. Anyone who told me they'd never been wrong in any of their assessments would never get past the first interview.

I've had candidates tell me they wanted my job eventually (kudos to them). But I've never had anyone say that through brilliant management they could make my organization among the best in the world in 10 years because they have a gift for the business

I suppose unparalleled and unearned self-confidence can be a big asset on the pitch, but I'm not sure that's true in the boardroom.

Though I would love to read about Manager Mattteo taking Dulwich Hamlet up the National League South table through incisive purchases of unheralded talent and sound financial management.

Matteo has come in for some brickbats but he does take the time and trouble to post some lengthy and very detailed information relating to a plethora of players a whole host of which perhaps many have not heard of so he certainly doesn't skimp on effort ! Whether it adds value to the debate is a matter of personal opinion.

 

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View mattteo's Profile mattteo Online Flag 10 Jan 19 8.08pm Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

Originally posted by JohnB


We'll just take your suggestions from this thread.

Moussa Kone. Bundesliga 2. Barely championship standard.

His assists and goals have been in either the second division of German football and even worse, the challenge league in Switzerland which is League two at best.

Habib Diallo. Ligue 2. Barely Championship standard too.

Didn't even score 1 in 3 for Brest in Ligue 2, he's hardly going to cut it in our league.


I'm assuming you took that 1 in 3 reference from wikipedia (correct me if I'm wrong). His wikipedia page has not been updated in more than a year and says 16 goals for Brest in 50 matches.

The correct assesement is the one I posted about him above : 31 goals in 66 matches (he has 15 goals in 17 matches this season!). Not saying that 1 goal in 2 matches in the French second division automatically makes you Premier League top scorer over night, but at 23 years old it's damn good and I was comparing his under 5 million price with that of Maupay who is valued at 20 m.

Moussa Kone and Habib Diallo are playing in te German and French second leagues because they are 21 and 23 years old. There is a natural order to a player's development. They won't be playing there for long. In 1-2 years they'll be in the top divisions of Germany and France, scoring goal and by 25-26 they will be sold by their teams to even better team for many millions. Where do you think most strikers score at 21-22 years old? Where was Lewandowski was playing at 22? At Lech Poznan in Poland, easily the same tier as 2.Bundesliga or Ligue 2.


Originally posted by DeanMiles

Ante Rebic is godlike tier in football, could be the next Cristiano Ronaldo.

I was more trying to say that you can't touch him with that than compare his value to Cristiano's. He's valued by transfermarkt.com at 35 million, the most an attacking midfielder or winger from Germany who is not playing for Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund or Bayer Leverkusen costs. Starting attacking player alongside Rakitic, Modric, Mandzukic and Perisic for Croatia, World Cup finalist. Not that he's godlike tier in performances, he's godlike tier that you can't touch him without 50 million (which MU offered).

You can find him here on page 8: [Link]

See how many attacking players more expensive than him play at lowly teams. None


Originally posted by ThatPetrolRelation

Though I would love to read about Manager Mattteo taking Dulwich Hamlet up the National League South table through incisive purchases of unheralded talent and sound financial management.



It's actually much harder to do it with a 6th division league team because you don't have access to information, videos of players, statistics. You can only get talent by driving hundreds of miles in your car and seeing players play with your own eyes.
It's easier at this level when you have all the above. You only have a few hundreds of options, but you have to apply certain values and parametres in order to choose the right ones and to deduce their future.

It's even easier for clubs at the highest top. Do you think it's very difficult for Real Madrid to decide if they want Hazard or Neymar or Mbappe and which is better of them? That's it for them, 3-4 options. Hmmm...

 

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View ThatPetrolRelation's Profile ThatPetrolRelation Flag Ottawa 10 Jan 19 9.01pm Send a Private Message to ThatPetrolRelation Add ThatPetrolRelation as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo



It's actually much harder to do it with a 6th division league team because you don't have access to information, videos of players, statistics. You can only get talent by driving hundreds of miles in your car and seeing players play with your own eyes.
It's easier at this level when you have all the above. You only have a few hundreds of options, but you have to apply certain values and parametres in order to choose the right ones and to deduce their future.

It's even easier for clubs at the highest top. Do you think it's very difficult for Real Madrid to decide if they want Hazard or Neymar or Mbappe and which is better of them? That's it for them, 3-4 options. Hmmm...

I wasn't worried about whether Real Madrid have it easy, that's obvious. I was more thinking about how outsiders make it in the football business. And I'm doubtful if outsiders just get hired by Real Madrid without having worked in the field.

Back room staff begin their careers by working from the bottom and getting noticed, and yes probably often by driving hundreds of miles and looking at players with their own eyes. Then they get better jobs with better clubs and the scouting might get easier --though as you say they all have access to the same stats and video.

Putting in the work and proving yourself with results is kinda how careers work.


Edited by ThatPetrolRelation (10 Jan 2019 9.02pm)

 

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View dp's Profile dp Flag Tunbridge Wells 11 Jan 19 3.56am Send a Private Message to dp Add dp as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

It's actually much harder to do it with a 6th division league team because you don't have access to information, videos of players, statistics. You can only get talent by driving hundreds of miles in your car and seeing players play with your own eyes.
It's easier at this level when you have all the above. You only have a few hundreds of options, but you have to apply certain values and parametres in order to choose the right ones and to deduce their future.

It's even easier for clubs at the highest top. Do you think it's very difficult for Real Madrid to decide if they want Hazard or Neymar or Mbappe and which is better of them? That's it for them, 3-4 options. Hmmm...

Mattteo, I know that you and I donít see eye to eye on many things, but it pains me to see that you defeat yourself before you even try.

You say you have a gift for spotting players, you certainly know more than me about it and you have a passion for it. It costs very little to set up a company, so why donít you look into giving it a whirl?

You certainly have the indefatigable spirit needed for running a business, and entering into debates on a forum is not really going toprove your ability. If you really think that you have what it takes then get out there and prove it.

Now back to Maupay, I would rather we didnít!!

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag Chelsea 11 Jan 19 7.07am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by dp

Mattteo, I know that you and I donít see eye to eye on many things, but it pains me to see that you defeat yourself before you even try.

You say you have a gift for spotting players, you certainly know more than me about it and you have a passion for it. It costs very little to set up a company, so why donít you look into giving it a whirl?

You certainly have the indefatigable spirit needed for running a business, and entering into debates on a forum is not really going toprove your ability. If you really think that you have what it takes then get out there and prove it.

Now back to Maupay, I would rather we didnít!!

Makes me wonder if Palace are doing the type of analysis that is being done by Matteo of the European lower leagues. How much time is DF and his department spending on checking out these feeds.
There is fact to prove these leagues are proven providers of premier players. What matteo is identifying is the possibility of getting these guys in at a far cheaper price then bringing them on. Aretrack record at that is pretty poor, we have a number of juniors in our ranks who are not going to make the cut.
Time for a re think maybe? Matteo as I have said before you really should be taking your knowledge to SP and offering your services. You may not have the eye for a final decision but you are at the very least delivering a short list that must have a value to Palace.

 

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View Casual's Profile Casual Flag Orpington 11 Jan 19 8.03am Send a Private Message to Casual Add Casual as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Maupay(costs 15M+) compared to Ligue 2 top scorer ' by bexleydave

You don't get snapped cause there is no one to snap you, neither do you "apply" for a scouting company. You work as a scout if you were friends in youth football with the current President or Manager at a club. You can create your own company if your rich daddy gives you enough money to create it.

I am in neither situation of the above, so there is no way I could enter into the football business. Let alone in the big money Premier League one. They don't recruit you if you're highly professional and well trained, it's all about relations and connections. They all think they know about football players ))

Edited by mattteo (10 Jan 2019 12.17am)

Mate of mine from a council house in Downham, Harry, no contacts In football.
Started helping out at Chelsea with a youth team, ended up managing the under 8s. Left Chelsea as he couldnít see any way up the ladder , went to Millwall to manage their under 10s done a few years there , making contacts in football along the way, had a meeting with the management about his future progression and all paths seemed blocked. Got scouted by Southampton and West Ham , had the choice and went to Weat Ham, although heís a Millwall fan.
Canít have a night out with me tomorrow as heís at a tournament in Germany, first game v Bayern Munich.
Very likeable fella with innovative coaching styles , Scott Parker has said that he wants him with him, when he gets a number 1 job.
He got married last year to one of the Palace ladies team, all football people there, his best man is Gerardís first team coach at Rangers, previously had the under 21/23s at Anfield and was a first team coach at Sao Paolo after that.
Harryís had Rafa Benitez watching/commenting on his coaching techniques at Cobham, he thinks out the box , had all his youngsters hold a quaver whilst they are playing and sees at the end who plays less stressed and still has the crisp in tact.
Could have rested on his laurels as thereís a good chance he will crack on well in professional football. But heís started up a football academy, they are in more than 20 schools and also set up a scholarship for players that have been released by pro clubs. His team play all the top clubs as he has loads of contacts. Just done a tour of the midlands with them , Forest, villa etc. Regularly has pro clubs ring him asking if he has a decent left back etc and is getting youngsters back into pro clubs. Employs over 20 coaches now and his mrs works with them full time (good for the firm as she plays for Palace and is an international for Northern Ireland , also nice to look at so on all the flyers. )
Heís earning a fortune now, a small bit of it coming from his coaching the pro youth teams, but has many angles to get to the top in the pro game either as a coach (which is his passion), management, agent etc
Very likeable , knows when to listen, when to talk , have a laugh be serious , heís sympathetic but donít suffer fools.
May not make it but wonít be for a lack of trying , still in his 20s and all from start as a scaffolders son from a council estate in South East London.
Thereís always an excuse that you couldnít do something.

Not sure of what he thinks about Maupay, Iíll ask

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 11 Jan 19 10.53am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Maupay(costs 15M+) compared to Ligue 2 top scorer ' by bexleydave

You don't get snapped cause there is no one to snap you, neither do you "apply" for a scouting company. You work as a scout if you were friends in youth football with the current President or Manager at a club. You can create your own company if your rich daddy gives you enough money to create it.

I am in neither situation of the above, so there is no way I could enter into the football business. Let alone in the big money Premier League one. They don't recruit you if you're highly professional and well trained, it's all about relations and connections. They all think they know about football players ))

Edited by mattteo (10 Jan 2019 12.17am)

Using a specialist, it costs about £130 to set up a company. No rich daddy required.

However I don't know how you would go about selling your detailed analysis to football clubs.

Once you get a foothold in though, as Casual's story has shown, if you are any good and can develop relationships in the game, it can lead to genuine opportunities.

As for Maupay, I like him. But I don't think he's for us because we seem to be looking at the lower end of the market and at people with Premiership experience.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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View Casual's Profile Casual Flag Orpington 11 Jan 19 1.29pm Send a Private Message to Casual Add Casual as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

Using a specialist, it costs about £130 to set up a company. No rich daddy required.

However I don't know how you would go about selling your detailed analysis to football clubs.

Once you get a foothold in though, as Casual's story has shown, if you are any good and can develop relationships in the game, it can lead to genuine opportunities.

As for Maupay, I like him. But I don't think he's for us because we seem to be looking at the lower end of the market and at people with Premiership experience.

Iíd do 4 dossiers on players , one for each division, get the contact details of the head scout/ owner (whoever you want to direct it to ) of all 92 league clubs. Everyone would get one, Iíd hand deliver as many as I can. Outside the transfer window Iíd do the same every now and then with updates/new suggestions.
Do this every transfer window.
Did a similar thing when started building , went to the council to try and get a contract, as realised that their work isnít down to affordability so is pretty recession proof. Got told no , went there every time I drove past, weíll over a hundred times, always gave them a business card and was polite, always asked the staff their name etc
18 months later, got a call from them to plaster a ceiling. 15 years ago, that work see us come out the recession with more plasterers than we started it with. Turn over about 250 grand a year now on that contract.
Still polite, grateful and humble to everyone, Matteo maybe hold back on the 5 year to win the champions league plan and keep the Ďeverything I say is rightí comments to a minimum.
Good luck.
Not sure about Maupay

 

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View mattteo's Profile mattteo Online Flag 11 Jan 19 1.54pm Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

I live in another country, can't afford to travel by plane to England every month and visit club headquarters to offer them portofolios and I look like Jonah Hill! Ok, that last part is a joke, but I really can't hop on a plane.

If you guys are interested and presentable, we could team up, make a small enterprise as you said (the Holmesdale scouting association) and you could be the face travelling and getting in touch with club directors. We can work on any kind of portofolio presenting hundreds of players together.

Edited by mattteo (11 Jan 2019 1.56pm)

 

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View spartakev2's Profile spartakev2 Flag Anerley 11 Jan 19 1.57pm Send a Private Message to spartakev2 Add spartakev2 as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

Makes me wonder if Palace are doing the type of analysis that is being done by Matteo of the European lower leagues. How much time is DF and his department spending on checking out these feeds.
There is fact to prove these leagues are proven providers of premier players. What matteo is identifying is the possibility of getting these guys in at a far cheaper price then bringing them on. Aretrack record at that is pretty poor, we have a number of juniors in our ranks who are not going to make the cut.
Time for a re think maybe? Matteo as I have said before you really should be taking your knowledge to SP and offering your services. You may not have the eye for a final decision but you are at the very least delivering a short list that must have a value to Palace.

Thd problem we have is that we are rarely in thd position to 'trial' youngsters in our first team. We are almost always fighting relegation and are almost forced to play 'experienced' players. How often do you hear 'we need someone to hit the ground running' no point getting young strikers from Europe's lower leagues if they're just going to play in the u23s.

 

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View ThatPetrolRelation's Profile ThatPetrolRelation Flag Ottawa 11 Jan 19 3.24pm Send a Private Message to ThatPetrolRelation Add ThatPetrolRelation as a friend

While Palace might not have the staff to do full-scale statistical analysis of youngsters in leagues across the world, the big clubs certainly do.

One the the challenges is that the big clubs have an army of prospects signed an on loan, and if they don't develop, just the cachet of having been signed by a top club means they can generate a decent sale despite never really appearing for the club.

I'm hopeful that the new FIFA rules coming in to play to cap loan-outs will level the playing field a little. Chelsea has something like 40 players out on loan (not their academy or development side, these are additional). Even assuming that they aren't much better at assessing young talent (they probably are, and probably have a team of statisticians and analysts to guide their choices), the law of averages give them a huge advantage with this tactic. This helps not only in unearthing great talent they didn't have to buy on the market, but it also pays for itself when they can sell the players they don't think will ever cut it for them.

Fewer players tied-up early by the big clubs would mean a better chance for other clubs to land decent prospects for the academies and Development squads, which is the true path to becoming an enduring top half club.

Probably the big clubs will find a work-around, but I live in hopes

 

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