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September 23 2020 11.48pm

The Myth that we are better than we are

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View Bangell's Profile Bangell Flag Oxford 18 Mar 19 9.39am Send a Private Message to Bangell Add Bangell as a friend

I don't have huge complaints about the league position - it's just the uninspired, apparently uncaring performances and dreadful home form.

 

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 18 Mar 19 9.59am Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by StrangerThing

One of the Aussie commentators last week wheeled out the old "This squad should be further up the league line" Craig Foster, always to be relied upon for an honest assessment, disagreed. He said the two centre backs (Dann and Tomkins) were ordinary at best, the only two players he rated were Zaha and Luca. Obi Wan was good but still very young.

When you think about it he has a point. Which of our players apart from the ones mentioned are wanted by clubs further up. Townsend maybe but not by anyone in the top 8. The rest are about at their level with the squad players (Kelly, Ward) perhaps ready for the championship. Ayew was on the bench this weekend but I doubt anyone at the club wants him, Reidewald doesnt even get used, Wickham the same and Benteke outscores most other PL centre forwards but only in the number of post dedicated to his uselessness.
We just might be overachieving!


We have a Top 10 squad...no more no less...but it's simply not consistent enough at the minute...partly due to the tactics being employed by the Pragmatic and cautious Mr Hodgson....

 


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View Painter's Profile Painter Flag Croydon 18 Mar 19 10.19am Send a Private Message to Painter Add Painter as a friend


Originally posted by ChrisGC

Correction:

"You seem to think we're better than I think we are"

I explained my opinion. You justified yours by saying you accept the status quo, which can be analysed on merit of each season to tell an overall story of either over or underachievement, which I would say isn't relevant to where we are today.

Where we finish is relevant as to how good the team is. We aren’t as good as you think, the facts don’t lie. Over or under achieving is a matter of opinion, just because you spend a lot of money, it doesn’t guarantee improvement, ask Fulham supporters.

 

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View PZ Eagle's Profile PZ Eagle Flag Penzance 18 Mar 19 10.26am Send a Private Message to PZ Eagle Add PZ Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Well, this is a bold statement which statistics don't support I'm afraid.

A third of the total of all his career management victories came with Malmö. His time there ended in 1989.

A huge success at Malmo where he is still revered,
Took tiny Switzerland to heir first ever World cup and reached the last 16 plus qualification for European Nations Fina.
Guided Finland to their highest ever FIFA rankings.
Took Inter Milan to a EUFA Cup Final, only losing on penalties.
Saved Fulham from relegation and took them to a Europa Cup Final.
Took WBA to 10th in PL,their highest ever finish.
Came to Palace after the RdB fiasco and with us rock bottom P7 W0 D0 L7 and no goals with every pundit in the land saying were 100% certain to go down saved us.

If you are going to blame him solely for our home record this season then ergo he must also be solely responsible for our wins at Man City, Wolves, Fulham, Huddersfield, Leicester, Burnley and a draw at Man Utd.
Evn at Anfield where our two keepers were injured we scored three goals and gave them a fright.

Not a shabby record as a Manager.

Edited by PZ Eagle (18 Mar 2019 10.28am)

 


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ChrisGC Flag Wantage 18 Mar 19 10.48am

Originally posted by Painter


Where we finish is relevant as to how good the team is. We aren’t as good as you think, the facts don’t lie. Over or under achieving is a matter of opinion, just because you spend a lot of money, it doesn’t guarantee improvement, ask Fulham supporters.

Fulham supporters aren't relevant to our success.

Where we finish is relevant to how the team performs, not how good it is. Teams with better ability than us have been relegated before.

Over or under achieving in seasons past isn't relevant to today, nor is it solely an opinion. Our finish in the first season was an overachievement given expectation, squad ability and position at Christmas.


We are underperforming and underachieving this season. It's not as if we're playing at 100 miles an hour, chasing every ball, showing tactical flexibility is it?

The same 11 players (baring injury) are going out week after week and playing the same way and expecting different results.

It's the physical manifestation of the definition of madness.

I think we are capable of being better than we are playing. You don't.

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 10.51am)

 

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View harrowhorn's Profile harrowhorn Flag 18 Mar 19 10.56am Send a Private Message to harrowhorn Add harrowhorn as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Have to disagree.

We can field a starting 11, when fit, that is better than the starting 11 of 12 other premier League teams in my opinion. Perhaps it's true that we have only Zaha and AWB who are top 4 quality, but that's 2 more than Watford, Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle etc, and one more than WHU, Liecester, Everton. I think we should be realistically competing for top 8 and would consider Luka, Kouyate, Sakho, Tomkins, Townshend of being worthy of that quality.

Squad depth is a problem, but that's true of at least ten other teams: who do Bournemouth, Everton, Watford have on the bench? When injuries hit you look for the incoming players to be 20% better then they actually are as they're playing for a place and the rest of the team to come together so that the machine as a whole can be better than the sum of its parts. Do you honestly believe Dann, Ward, Kelly are that far off the standard when they have to deputise occasionally against the likes of Brighton or Huddersfield? I don't.
We're where we are because of poor management. Corners at both ends are a massive problem, yet we have proven capability. This is coaching. We have fit strikers since January and choices of positive central mids like Kouyate and Meyer or defensive options like Macca and Schlupp which can be used as subs or to start. They are usually negative options: This is poor management.

PVA has been very bad for a while and is capable of better. He should have been dropped for Schlupp after Bournemouth away. We wasn't. This is bad management.

I'll end by saying that I wouldn't consider Craig Foster an authority on the matter. He was on high wages and reportedly refused to leave when we were in financial difficulty. He was a waste of a shirt, not even bang average on his day. If we applied his attitude and ability across the squad we'd already be relegated.

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.36am)

Edited by ChrisGC (18 Mar 2019 7.48am)

Sorry, you are saying Watford have NO players that a top club would want? Foster would be a shoo-in for England if he hadn't said he's not interested. Doucouré? Pereyra? Deulefeo? Holebas who is actually our player of the year this year, most assists by a defender equal with Robertson.

Who do Watford have on the bench? Gomes; Cleverley (England caps); Chalobah (England caps at all levels); Kabasele (Belgium); Prodl (Austria); Britos (Uruguay); Penaranda (Columbia); Sema (Sweden); Success (Nigeria); Quina (Portugal U21) Gray (Luton);

Not giving it the biggun, cos it's probable that the other clubs you mention could also reel off a list of names but perhaps you should not use your lack of knowledge to make you think you are better than you are.

Anyway, good game Saturday, bad luck, I think we can probably call it quits now and forget any bogus rivalry going forward.

 

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View Master Coin's Profile Master Coin Flag 18 Mar 19 11.33am Send a Private Message to Master Coin Add Master Coin as a friend

We are better than our league position. For certain. And to say “we only have two decent players in Luka and Wilf” - how many did Leicester have when they won the league? That team has hardly been picked apart. The only top players there were Mahrez, Kante and Vardy and the rest was on coaching and optimising the squads skill set.

Can you honestly say that our home form is maximising what our squad can achieve?

 

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ChrisGC Flag Wantage 18 Mar 19 11.38am

Originally posted by harrowhorn

Sorry, you are saying Watford have NO players that a top club would want? Foster would be a shoo-in for England if he hadn't said he's not interested. Doucouré? Pereyra? Deulefeo? Holebas who is actually our player of the year this year, most assists by a defender equal with Robertson.

Who do Watford have on the bench? Gomes; Cleverley (England caps); Chalobah (England caps at all levels); Kabasele (Belgium); Prodl (Austria); Britos (Uruguay); Penaranda (Columbia); Sema (Sweden); Success (Nigeria); Quina (Portugal U21) Gray (Luton);

Not giving it the biggun, cos it's probable that the other clubs you mention could also reel off a list of names but perhaps you should not use your lack of knowledge to make you think you are better than you are.

Anyway, good game Saturday, bad luck, I think we can probably call it quits now and forget any bogus rivalry going forward.

No, I didn't say that. I said we had 2 players arguably capable of playing for top 4 teams whereas you don't. Foster is having the season of his life and I like Success. The rest are absolutely punching.

I'm happy that Watford refrained by in large from kicking f*** out of their betters on Saturday, as is their usual tactics, and deserved to go through having shown more want for the win.

As for bogus rivalry? I just don't like Deeney etc behaving thuggishly on and off the pitch. It's like watching Wimbledon of the 90s.
Enjoy the season. You'll finish 8th in the league and runners up in the cup before dropping off next season. A bit like Burnley.

 

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View Ginger Pubic Wig's Profile Ginger Pubic Wig Flag Wickham de L'Ouest 18 Mar 19 12.47pm Send a Private Message to Ginger Pubic Wig Add Ginger Pubic Wig as a friend

A goalscorer would have us roughly six places higher in this division. it's that simple.

 


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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 18 Mar 19 12.59pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Bangell

I don't have huge complaints about the league position - it's just the uninspired, apparently uncaring performances and dreadful home form.

This as well although sometimes i would not use the apparently bit.
Home form is where the fans gain or lose their mojo.
Wow mines a bit lacking.
I will go to the remaining ones but am indecisive about a ST next year.
Im done with this crappy defensive respect a point or a 1-0 defeat crap.
One day we will go down.
At least if you go down playing attacking football with the tactics for defending alongside you can start the next season firing to try to get back up.
Look swansea WBA and stoke.
Went down with our current philisophy and none coming back up.

 

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View Ghostship's Profile Ghostship Flag Norfolk 18 Mar 19 1.13pm Send a Private Message to Ghostship Add Ghostship as a friend

What didn't help was us Palace fans saying pre season that we were good enough to finish 7th or 8th this season based on a good end to last season. In fact it wasn't just Palace fans saying this it was also the likes of Neville and Carragher and even fans from other clubs.

If Roy had allowed us to start the season in an attacking fashion and got several wins in our first 10 games then this could have happened but he went back to safety first football. By the end of the Southampton home game which was just our 4th match of the season I knew then that it was going to be another long slog.

In terms of the thread title I think our squad is not as good as Everton, Leicester, West Ham or Watford but better than Newcastle and Bournemouth who are both above us. We have good players in AWB, Sakho, Tomkins, Luka, Kouyate, Zaha, Meyer as an impact sub and Michy even though he is not our player. The rest are average including Townsend who works hard and apart from one purple patch a season delivers little. Players like PVA, McArthur, Kelly and Dann have been good in the past but are on the decline.

Big changes are needed in the summer across all aspects of the club but somehow I don't see it happening.

 

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View JacksonEagle's Profile JacksonEagle Flag Croydon 18 Mar 19 1.33pm Send a Private Message to JacksonEagle Add JacksonEagle as a friend

I think a lot of it is Roy simply isn't a good match for the players/squad we have. He's clearly a very good manager, but his approach is relatively conservative, we have some really exciting players, some of the most exciting i've seen in my 20/25 years supporting palace and i'm not sure he's the right man to get them reach their full potential, again not because hes a bad manager just not the right manager, who is? no idea, which is the main problem.

Also would like to stress that im not saying we should be playing pure football like city, barca, just think our approach isn't correct for the current squad. Agree with what a couple of others have said that our position isn't a major concern just the performances.

 

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