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April 9 2020 6.42pm

the top six - how long have they got?

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 28 Apr 19 10.36pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

I don't think they're as set in stone any more as many believe - Chelsea, Arse and manure will soon be challenged by Leicester, wolves, everton and or west ham if not next season then the season after I see a breakthrough - the chasing pack are not that far off and some of the top six have got a bit flabby and inconsistent - I think there is a genuine issue with prima-donnaism with many top sides and hungrier teams with top managers and plenty of dosh have serious ambition to break into the European places. The prem has had a top four and now a top six basically cut off financially from the other teams for a generation, go back twenty years or much less and the 8th, 9th, 10th teams could be pretty ordinary - not any more, La Liga used to be much deeper than the prem, mid table teams would be in the Sevilla, Celta Vigo, Bilbao, Deportivo class, not since the early seventies has our top div had such depth, classic leeds, united and city sides, arsenal (double), spurs (gilzean and chivers) and Chelsea (Osgood, Hudson) all great sides, wolves were a top side and so were Liverpool of course, the current prem has the same kind of depth now, and there might be a return to the elite clubs having the odd season or two in mid table if they take their eye off the ball, we'd all welcome it if things go in this direction, I think it's happening and I'll be looking to have a flutter come august on the basis of the top six being broken into. please feel welcome to tell me i'm talking garbage - as long as there's an explanation.

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag Chelsea 28 Apr 19 10.49pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

I don't think they're as set in stone any more as many believe - Chelsea, Arse and manure will soon be challenged by Leicester, wolves, everton and or west ham if not next season then the season after I see a breakthrough - the chasing pack are not that far off and some of the top six have got a bit flabby and inconsistent - I think there is a genuine issue with prima-donnaism with many top sides and hungrier teams with top managers and plenty of dosh have serious ambition to break into the European places. The prem has had a top four and now a top six basically cut off financially from the other teams for a generation, go back twenty years or much less and the 8th, 9th, 10th teams could be pretty ordinary - not any more, La Liga used to be much deeper than the prem, mid table teams would be in the Sevilla, Celta Vigo, Bilbao, Deportivo class, not since the early seventies has our top div had such depth, classic leeds, united and city sides, arsenal (double), spurs (gilzean and chivers) and Chelsea (Osgood, Hudson) all great sides, wolves were a top side and so were Liverpool of course, the current prem has the same kind of depth now, and there might be a return to the elite clubs having the odd season or two in mid table if they take their eye off the ball, we'd all welcome it if things go in this direction, I think it's happening and I'll be looking to have a flutter come august on the basis of the top six being broken into. please feel welcome to tell me i'm talking garbage - as long as there's an explanation.

Youíre talking a lot of sense. The money is there so the chase is now on. Just hope someone with very deep pockets turns up to take us to the party.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 28 Apr 19 11.55pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

They might break in temporarily but they wonít stay there because of finances, obviously. The revenues of the top 6 are way ahead of the rest and even if other sides assemble great teams, they canít maintain it after some leave, retire, age etc. Itíll take a huge commitment for any club to break into the top 6/4. Iím talking another new 50-60,000 stadium and probably bending of the rules in sponsoring the club and increasing revenue.

The teams?

Leicester? Whatís going to them ownership and finance wise? When Vardyís time is up then ordinary theyíll become within time, probably very quickly.

Everton? Seriously? They buy loads of quite good players and were ineffective yesterday. Theyíll need to sell and relocate to become one of the big clubs.

West Ham? Hilarious. Never, under these owners.

Wolves? Possibly, if thereís huge financing.

 


COYP

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 29 Apr 19 12.41am Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

I think Leicester and Everton could be a threat next season - the latter were very unlucky v us and after an iffy start they are starting to click under Silva, they spent very badly under Koemann, if they'd had spent as wisely as wolves they could have been top six this season - to maintain top six they'd have to relocate sure, but they're not that far off in terms of financial clout and infrastructure - I don't think Leicester will dip without vardy as much as you presume, wolves will plateau probably, and west ham do need new owners but a rich buyer will come for them, it's inevitable with their fan base and stadium, and they will challenge the top six in the next few years - and I do believe that the Sanchez/Pogba (who's the Chelsea keeper who refused to be subbed in the caribou cup) mentality is a weakness that teams with more collectivism can exploit - maybe I'm getting old but the current arsenal team is more noticeable for its hairstyles than its teamplay - Chelsea imploded back in 2016, I predict a few more examples of that from the big clubs - I'm as clueless as the next armchair expert but anyone thinking of putting Paul Pogba in their side needs their head testing - 'quel branleur' as they say in France.

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 29 Apr 19 6.27am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

They might break in temporarily but they wonít stay there because of finances, obviously. The revenues of the top 6 are way ahead of the rest and even if other sides assemble great teams, they canít maintain it after some leave, retire, age etc. Itíll take a huge commitment for any club to break into the top 6/4. Iím talking another new 50-60,000 stadium and probably bending of the rules in sponsoring the club and increasing revenue.

The teams?

Leicester? Whatís going to them ownership and finance wise? When Vardyís time is up then ordinary theyíll become within time, probably very quickly.

Everton? Seriously? They buy loads of quite good players and were ineffective yesterday. Theyíll need to sell and relocate to become one of the big clubs.

West Ham? Hilarious. Never, under these owners.

Wolves? Possibly, if thereís huge financing.

etc as in inexplicably become a useless donkey overnight.

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View JohnB's Profile JohnB Flag 29 Apr 19 7.18am Send a Private Message to JohnB Add JohnB as a friend

I can see Man U and Chelsea both dropping out of that top 6 over the next couple of years if they are continued to be managed in the fashion they are.

Man U has no guidance at the top and Woodward just seems to make bad decision after the next. There is only so long they can continue to attract players with the Man U name if they are out of the Champions League.

Chelsea I can see tailing off the more Abrahmovic loses interest and is banned from entering the country.

There is a great opportunity for a couple of teams and it will be the ones that are managed well like Wolves and even Watford, who buy smart and make progress every year.

That is the one area we massively lack in. That long term vision and strategy and the ability to unearth a few gems.

The one manager who has impressed me this year is Farke at Norwich, he has come in with a vision, got rid of anyone that didn't fit that and turned them into an excellent pressing team. He lost his star players in Maddison and Murphy for £37m and spent £6m on a championship winning team. We could really do with our next appointment being someone like that who knows exactly what they want and has the strength to carry it out.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 29 Apr 19 7.36am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

I would like to think that the OP is correct however I don't think they are. The big boys will have bad seasons but they have the resources to get the players and the managers.

I don't see anyone else regularly replacing one of them. If any of the owners get bored and want to sell they'll be plenty of rich sugar daddies wanting a new train set.

 


One more point

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View jeeagles's Profile jeeagles Flag 29 Apr 19 7.51am Send a Private Message to jeeagles Add jeeagles as a friend

It won't last forever. Roll back 20 years and you wouldnt have thought anyone would have been able to challenge Man United's dominance. No one would have expected the investment City or Chelsea got. No one would have expected Tottenham to have been so well managed. People would have been shocked that Villa and Leeds would have been in the Championship.

Outside of football it would have been the same. Windows and Nokia had massive monopolies. All changed now.

Owners will get bored. UEFA might change the FFP or loan rules. Sanctions could occur against City. Managers will quit or their styles will become outdated. Or there could be another change that no one expects.

Edited by jeeagles (29 Apr 2019 7.53am)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 29 Apr 19 8.15am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

It won't last forever. Roll back 20 years and you wouldnt have thought anyone would have been able to challenge Man United's dominance. No one would have expected the investment City or Chelsea got. No one would have expected Tottenham to have been so well managed. People would have been shocked that Villa and Leeds would have been in the Championship.

Outside of football it would have been the same. Windows and Nokia had massive monopolies. All changed now.

Owners will get bored. UEFA might change the FFP or loan rules. Sanctions could occur against City. Managers will quit or their styles will become outdated. Or there could be another change that no one expects.

Edited by jeeagles (29 Apr 2019 7.53am)

Perhaps we are both speculating. Because of FFP it is far harder now for a billionaire to buy a club and throw money at it but you are right I don't have a crystal ball.

Juventus are leading the way with plans to revamp the Champions League and guess what the top 30+ clubs in Europe want to pull up the ladder. UEAFA hasn't agreed to it yet but it's only a matter of time before the big boys get their way.

 


One more point

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 29 Apr 19 8.52am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

TV money has helped level the playing field a bit, but I think the quality of the top coaches is as high as I can remember.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 29 Apr 19 9.10am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Sure someone can break into the top 6 or 4 but it wonít be sustained as the current top 10 are setup now. One or more of the clubs change and it can happen, but then the question will have changed to how have they been allowed to, seeing as itís been done with vast sums of money they donít produce, a bit like Man City.

The difference of revenue over Wolves and Leicester and similar is enough to buy 1-2 really top class players every season and pay higher wages to the whole squad. This extra quality signed every season you can spread over 3-4 seasons and doesnít everyone say their team, before considering squad, is short of 3 players?

 


COYP

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 29 Apr 19 9.29am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

A brief report on the proposed changes to the Champions League "by the elite for the elite".


[Link]

 


One more point

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