You are here: Home > Message Board > General Talk > police with guns
September 30 2020 11.15pm

police with guns

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 1 of 2 1 2 > Last Ľ

 

View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 27 Aug 20 7.38pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Just thought I'd share some experiences after the latest shootings in the USA.
Unfortunately, it was inevitable that British police would almost routinely carry guns (especially in vehicles) with the means at criminals disposal and the rise in terrorism.

Lots of UK police didn't want to carry guns, as they feared it might provoke an antagonistic atmosphere in their routine lines of work.

And so to the latest shooting by US police (Jacob Blake).
Police have a difficult job. They can be utter cvntish lawbreakers themselves. As I found out when my policeman mate was pulled-over last week for suspected D&D. (my is mate is a black police officer). My mate admitted D&D, but the police parked his car, and drove him the 3 miles home "because we look after each other, but don't ever do that again"

Police in the US have extra worries as everyone can have a fire-arm, or be on mental drugs.

I was stopped by police in America in 1994, because my white friend was being arrested for pi55ing in an alleyway. One of the two police officers put his hand on his side-arm, and said to me, "walk away, unless you want some of this"
I walked,...without hesitation.

The second situation was in Forest Hill, when i was out running one evening. I ran into a drugs bust on Sydenham Hill. A policeman with a rifle stood in the road pointing his gun at me "Armed police. Get back now!"
The blood in my body fell into my shoes, and I hyperventilated all the way on my 20 minute walk home.

In the case of Jacob Blake, the guy said he was going to his car to get a weapon. He chose to ignore police orders.
I am not saying shooting him 7 times was the correct response. It doesn't seem proportionate.
What I'm saying, is that when police have threatened me with a shooting, I have done the right thing.
Police have to deal with some bad mothers out there.

Let's wait for the results of a proper investigation

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (27 Aug 2020 8.53pm)

 


,.,.,..,

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 27 Aug 20 8.13pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Fair thoughts. I'll say that it was clearly excessive and disproportionate to what was happening, but where police are sometimes trigger happy, as an individual it's not a bad idea to dial down rather than escalate.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 27 Aug 20 8.24pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Why donít they just shoot in the leg once?

 


COYP

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 27 Aug 20 8.35pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Why donít they just shoot in the leg once?

And then get shot in the face by the perp?

Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (27 Aug 2020 8.35pm)

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 27 Aug 20 8.50pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

And then get shot in the face by the perp?

Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (27 Aug 2020 8.35pm)

Point taken, but actions proportionate to a situation wouldn't go a miss. Rudi makes a good point. If they feared he was going to get a gun from the car, taking somewhat more significant efforts to stop him getting there wouldn't have been a bad approach. Waiting for him to open the car door before firing seven bullets into him doesn't seem like the best approach. Besides disabling someone from the waist down with a barrage of bullets doesn't stop them from moving their arms towards their (non existent) gun does it?


Edited by BlueJay (27 Aug 2020 8.51pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 27 Aug 20 9.01pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Apparently the police tried to taser him moments earlier, but failed. So they did try a non-violent route, allegedly.

"I'm going to get a weapon from my car", is not the response I would have given to police with fire arms.

It was really a 'nothing' situation, but with the drugs some suspects are on, they can have the power of The Hulk.
Who's to say Blake didn't have a fire arm in his car ? Then police officers would be dead.

points taken from all previous posters.


And police officers have to make split-second decisions on assessing risk to themselves , and others.

Again, I'm taking no sides. Just saying we need to wait for a thorough investigation, rather than relying on meeja reports

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (27 Aug 2020 9.06pm)

 


,.,.,..,

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 27 Aug 20 9.14pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Apparently the police tried to taser him moments earlier, but failed. So they did try a non-violent route, allegedly.

"I'm going to get a weapon from my car", is not the response I would have given to police with fire arms.

It was really a 'nothing' situation, but with the drugs some suspects are on, they can have the power of The Hulk.
Who's to say Blake didn't have a fire arm in his car ? Then police officers would be dead.

points taken from all previous posters.


And police officers have to make split-second decisions on assessing risk to themselves , and others.

Again, I'm taking no sides. Just saying we need to wait for a thorough investigation, rather than relying on meeja reports

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (27 Aug 2020 9.06pm)


Yes that's what it all comes down to I suppose. There will always be trigger happy types in the police, but there are also lots of decent and dutiful police officers put on the spot, and in this camera phone age unfortunately a greatest hits of situations that were badly handled is all we're going to see. Add the stark political split right now into the mix and all that happens is escalation across the board.

Two things would be useful stateside, but arent going to happen near election time. 1 - For the left groupthink to realise that only highlighting disturbing incidents against black individuals creates a warped perception of policing, injustice and society 2 - For right groupthink not to scramble for reasons to justify or be entirely nonplussed by every disturbing incident going when it's against a black individual. There is a real problem stateside with both of these. We only ever hear from the loudest, craziest voices right now and these positions are amplified. I[m not convinced most normal people of any colour or creed are interested or involved in any of it.

Edited by BlueJay (27 Aug 2020 9.34pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag croydon 27 Aug 20 10.14pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Picked a fella up in my cab years ago in clapham, week nite, late, took the money up front from him cos he looked a bit iffy, turned out was a nice bloke and had just finished his shift,asked what he did, armed response officer! Felt a bit stupid, but he was good as gold handing over a score before he got in.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View ambrose7's Profile ambrose7 Flag Croydon 27 Aug 20 10.25pm Send a Private Message to ambrose7 Add ambrose7 as a friend

America are somewhat doomed to getting this right because it's so common to carry firearm that it's always a likely outcome in the back of the officers' head. That's the main difference between the USA and, say, France where police carry. For every trigger happy PC in the USA, there's a trigger happy convict and there's enough interactions you're going to get a certain number of people making bad calls.

The UK is so different because the risk level is so different. The more likely threat is from a knife, which requires the person to be in close proximity and get around the vest. The likelihood of instant, lethal force is far lower.

That's one reason why the UK can use different tactics. It also immediately offers up a greater opportunity for the UK to get closer to a person, talk and as far as possible attempt to de-escalate - there isn't that same possibility of immediate threat. It changes the entire handling of the situation.

Plus, when you come across armed police in the UK, they're so well trained because they're specialised that they don't often end up with the same poor decision making the USA do.

For as long as the USA hold the right to routinely carry arms amongst the population, they'll always have a police/population 'problem'.

 


26th January 2010 - Enter Administration
2nd May 2010 - D-Day 1 - Survival at Hillsborough
1st June 2010 - D-Day 2 - Survival at Lloyds
7th June 2010 - CPFC2010 exchange contracts.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View martin2412's Profile martin2412 Flag The Big Wide World 27 Aug 20 10.26pm Send a Private Message to martin2412 Add martin2412 as a friend

[Link]

The police are definitely trigger happy in the states. According to the link above, 558 people have been shot by the police in 2020. Interestingly (and not reported by the PC mainstream media) the majority are white.

Only 111 of the 558 are black. So they are not being excessively targeted any more than any other race it seems.

Edited by martin2412 (27 Aug 2020 10.28pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 27 Aug 20 11.30pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by martin2412

[Link]

The police are definitely trigger happy in the states. According to the link above, 558 people have been shot by the police in 2020. Interestingly (and not reported by the PC mainstream media) the majority are white.

Only 111 of the 558 are black. So they are not being excessively targeted any more than any other race it seems.

Edited by martin2412 (27 Aug 2020 10.28pm)

You've hit the nail on the head. I'm not saying there aren't racist elements and attitudes in the US police force that colour how people are treated, but that's a small aspect of a bigger issue. The one eyed approach of only looking at this issue in racial terms, obscures wider problems in policing and miscarriages of justice that are just as bad as anything we've seen that people have been up in arms about of late.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Aug 20 8.01am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

You've hit the nail on the head. I'm not saying there aren't racist elements and attitudes in the US police force that colour how people are treated, but that's a small aspect of a bigger issue. The one eyed approach of only looking at this issue in racial terms, obscures wider problems in policing and miscarriages of justice that are just as bad as anything we've seen that people have been up in arms about of late.

Rather than defund the police they need to spend more money on training and especially in the area of deescalation. I can't remember the numbers but they spend many hours on weapons training and hardly any on how to stop a situation spiraling out of control.

There are simple things they need to learn. British police officers don't normally wear sunglasses yet you see loads on American cops with the wraparounds. If you are driving fine but when you pull someone other take them off make eye contact. How you talk to people, American cops are very aggressive because they have been told to take charge of the situation but that is not always the smart move.

As for their justice system you do not want to be charged with a serious crime in small town America they don't have the expertise or money to properly investigate. We have dedicated CSI experts they will probably use a local doctor for the coroner and any expensive tests would have to be approved.

As for their pleas bargaining system I have no doubt there are many innocent people in jail if you are facing 30 years hard time and are offered 3 years who wouldn't take rather that than risk being found guilty.

Their appeals process is shambolic as well, many cases where new DNA or other forensic tests should clear a convicted person but the courts refuse to examine it because the law allowing appeals is to narrow.

All of this plus the very real risk of being killed (100+ officers pa) and racism is the least of the problems.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Aug 2020 8.03am)

Edited by Badger11 (28 Aug 2020 8.05am)

 


One more point

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 1 of 2 1 2 > Last Ľ

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > General Talk > police with guns