Turks and Azerbaijan declare War on Armenia
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 steeleye20 Online  Croydon 28 Sep 20 9.33am |
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Originally posted by Azerbaijan Eagle
First of all, I live in Baku Azerbaijan and have done for the last 23 years. Since 1994 Armenia has occupied 20% of Azerbaijan. Negotiations have gone no where - probably because Armenia won that conflict and the countries that provide mediation are Russia (interested in always causing problems with its neighbours), France - a very strong Armenian lobby, and the US - another strong Armenian lobby. Anyway - nothing has changed in 30 years, Azerbaijan isn't getting its land back any time soon by negotiation. In July this year, Armenia started shelling into Azerbaijan held territory and since then sporadic shelling has continued between both sides. (shelling and skirmishes have been going on since 1994 but on the "front line". The original dispute is over a land called Nagorno Karabalh (NK) - Azerbaijani land with a high ethnic Armenian population. The complication being that NK is surrounded by Azerbaijani territory - it does not border at all Armenia itself. There are 4 UN resolutions demanding that Armenia leave Azerbaijan. Whilst the vast majority of Azerbaijanis are of muslim descent, they do not practice at all. It is wrong to bring Christian/Muslim into this - it is straight Armenia/Azerbaijan - nothing else. The Soviet Union pretty much killed religion - most people perhaps believe there is a God but are neither Muslim nor Christian.
Finally - to go back to the original post. It is impossible to invade your own country. Azerbaijan is fighting now to expel Armenia from its own territory - as simple as that. 30 years of Negotiations went nowhere and in July villages in non occupied Azerbaijan were shelled. I hope that the war ends quickly, the deaths on both sides cease and normal people can get back to living normal lives whatever the outcome in Armenia itself, the occupied territories of Azerbaijan, Nagorno Karabakh and the villages on the frontline of the Occupied Territories. Edited by Azerbaijan Eagle (28 Sep 2020 8.37am) That is very unconvincing your country is clearly the aggressor here. 'Might is not right, temper it with justice'
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 28 Sep 20 10.35am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
That is very unconvincing your country is clearly the aggressor here. 'Might is not right, temper it with justice'
Depends on which news channel you watch these days. Funny where Eagles pop up isn't it.
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| the.universal 28 Sep 20 2.12pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
That is very unconvincing your country is clearly the aggressor here. 'Might is not right, temper it with justice'
Being the aggressor doesn’t automatically put you in the wrong. Think of our response to the Falkland Islands invasion (maybe a topic for another day). Personally I was thankful for some local insight, would be good to get the view from the other side also. This seems like a complex and long running situation.
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| steeleye20 Online Croydon 28 Sep 20 3.14pm |
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Originally posted by the.universal
Being the aggressor doesn’t automatically put you in the wrong. Think of our response to the Falkland Islands invasion (maybe a topic for another day). Personally I was thankful for some local insight, would be good to get the view from the other side also. This seems like a complex and long running situation. No, the Argentines invaded and got their just desserts. Anyway as you say, and what's it doing on the HOL.
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| chris123 hove actually 28 Sep 20 3.42pm |
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I think Turkey is having a bit of a pop at Greece too, so they'll be busy on both fronts.
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| Cpfc1861 28 Sep 20 5.37pm |
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Originally posted by Azerbaijan Eagle
First of all, I live in Baku Azerbaijan and have done for the last 23 years. Since 1994 Armenia has occupied 20% of Azerbaijan. Negotiations have gone no where - probably because Armenia won that conflict and the countries that provide mediation are Russia (interested in always causing problems with its neighbours), France - a very strong Armenian lobby, and the US - another strong Armenian lobby. Anyway - nothing has changed in 30 years, Azerbaijan isn't getting its land back any time soon by negotiation. In July this year, Armenia started shelling into Azerbaijan held territory and since then sporadic shelling has continued between both sides. (shelling and skirmishes have been going on since 1994 but on the "front line". The original dispute is over a land called Nagorno Karabalh (NK) - Azerbaijani land with a high ethnic Armenian population. The complication being that NK is surrounded by Azerbaijani territory - it does not border at all Armenia itself. There are 4 UN resolutions demanding that Armenia leave Azerbaijan. Whilst the vast majority of Azerbaijanis are of muslim descent, they do not practice at all. It is wrong to bring Christian/Muslim into this - it is straight Armenia/Azerbaijan - nothing else. The Soviet Union pretty much killed religion - most people perhaps believe there is a God but are neither Muslim nor Christian.
Finally - to go back to the original post. It is impossible to invade your own country. Azerbaijan is fighting now to expel Armenia from its own territory - as simple as that. 30 years of Negotiations went nowhere and in July villages in non occupied Azerbaijan were shelled. I hope that the war ends quickly, the deaths on both sides cease and normal people can get back to living normal lives whatever the outcome in Armenia itself, the occupied territories of Azerbaijan, Nagorno Karabakh and the villages on the frontline of the Occupied Territories. Edited by Azerbaijan Eagle (28 Sep 2020 8.37am) Let's be honest mate the people that lived there had a referendum and wanted to be part of armenia who the Azerbaijanis have been murdering for years they went in and took it over the people there have no desire to be Azerbaijani and if you get it back azerbaijani authorities will probably murder the Armenians there by most accounts except al jazerah news azerbaijan are also the aggressors here. To put it into perspective the referendum was 99 percent in favour of remaining armenian.
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 28 Sep 20 5.38pm |
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France are sticking their big nose in because they like all the albums of Charles Aznavour
Eze Peasy at Anfield.... |
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| Cpfc1861 28 Sep 20 5.39pm |
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Originally posted by the.universal
Being the aggressor doesn’t automatically put you in the wrong. Think of our response to the Falkland Islands invasion (maybe a topic for another day). Personally I was thankful for some local insight, would be good to get the view from the other side also. This seems like a complex and long running situation. The Argentines were agressors and in the wrong they had never been to the Falklands. There only claim to it was geography everything else points to british rule.
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| Cpfc1861 28 Sep 20 5.45pm |
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Armenian birds are also proper fit so the right thing to do is support them.
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| PalazioVecchio south pole 28 Sep 20 6.56pm |
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Originally posted by Cpfc1861
Armenian birds are also proper fit so the right thing to do is support them. and would you defend a place full of fat munters ? if it got invaded. newcastle on tyne anybody ?
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| Cpfc1861 28 Sep 20 7.17pm |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
and would you defend a place full of fat munters ? if it got invaded. newcastle on tyne anybody ? Why would anybody invade Newcastle were praying somebody takes it.
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| Azerbaijan Eagle 28 Sep 20 7.46pm |
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Well, that is a simple one to answer I think as regards the referendum. Only ethnic Armenians live in Nagorno Karabakh now. All the Azerbaijanis that used to live there had to flee as refugees or be killed. Read the Azerbaijan Diary by Thomas Golz. It doesn't explain everything but you see what happened 30 plus years ago. The problems between the two nations go back a 100 years. 1 million Azerbaijanis became internally displaced people between 1991 and 1994 - that is why everyone here is behind what is happening. 20% of Azerbaijan territory is occupied by Armenia. After 30 years of nothing achieved talking they have retaliated (I believe) to the attack on Tovuz ( a village in Azerbaijan, not on the line of control or inside the Occupied Territories but in Azerbaijan - civilian targets - back in July. That was the straw that broke the camels back When the petty shelling started again this weekend, Azerbaijan retaliated. They feel that they cannot just wait another 30 years. Another reason that I believe that this has escalated is that the new Armenian President seems to have ratcheted up the anti Azerbaijani rhetoric. I think he was seen as different (he formed a kind of velvet revolution) - not from the corrupt political ex Soviet Class like before - however things have not gone well for him and he has played the Qarabagh card (to unite people behind him) and as such has been called out by the Azerbaijanis losing patience. Moreover - it is really interesting that Russia has not put its foot down this time - it seems that they will not be stepping in to save Russian Nationals (their official excuse as regards Ukraine) living there - clearly something is not right between teh current President and Mr Putin. In 1994 Armenia (with Russian help) defeated Azerbaijan. Both countries were broke by the end of it. I got here in 1998 - power cuts, no gas, broken roads etc. Starving people. Armenia was strong then. Azerbaijan (because of the oil) is strong now. They (Armenia) just refused to negotiate anything it seems. I am not saying that this is all the fault of one side, I was really just trying to say that the original subject is not correct, they have been at war since the collapse of the Soviet Union, no one has declared war on anyone, they have just (Azerbaijan) invaded their own country (which is obviously not possible). All of the 7 Azerbaijani districts that are occupied by Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh is the legitimate territory of Azerbaijani. Not even Armenia recognises Nagorno Karabakh as a country in its own right. Azerbaijan is fighting Armenia inside Azerbaijan - that is my basic point - there is no invasion as it were - they are fighting to get their land back - that is how they see it - rightly or wrongly. It is not as simple as this happened then, that happened another time - it is too complicated to go into on this forum without writing a book. Let's be honest mate the people that lived there had a referendum and wanted to be part of armenia who the Azerbaijanis have been murdering for years they went in and took it over the people there have no desire to be Azerbaijani and if you get it back azerbaijani authorities will probably murder the Armenians there by most accounts except al jazerah news azerbaijan are also the aggressors here. To put it into perspective the referendum was 99 percent in favour of remaining armenian.
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