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Sleepwalking


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Elwissthebest Flag Marlborough 26 Jan 21 9.02pm

Four scenarios:
1.The manager stays and we get relegated.
2.The manager changes and we still get relegated.
3.The manager stays and we stay up.
4.A new manager keeps us up.

The longer the manager stays, the more likely a change of manager fails to save us. We won't win many games in the last two months of the season. The 'winnable' games are coming up. If these games don't produce wins, we're toast anyway.

38 points might keep us up. If a team wins ten games a season that's probably enough with eight draws thrown in. I'm interested to hear serious suggestions of where four more wins will come.
RH has done Palace proud. But he's beyond his shelf life. His strength was to produce teams that were hard to score against and could break quickly. Well, that's not true any more. 4-0 at Chelsea and Citeh, 0-7 Liverpool, three more tonight. Goal difference is unlikely to be our '39th point'.
When we are a goal or two behind, he's a rabbit in the headlights. I just don't get this argument about his tactical acumen. When did a tactical substitution swing the game in our favour? I don't know whether Eze for Schlupp against Sheff. Utd counts as a tactical sub.
How many players has he actually improved? Again, serious suggestions welcome. It's not hard to point to those players who have seriously declined under his leadership.
'Sleepwalking' as a club because players have just become too old for the job: Ward, McArthur, Cahill, Dann. All fine players in their time. When players age, they age quickly.
23 points half way through the season has given us a false sense of security. The 'be careful what you wish for' mentality is curiously conservative. It's certainly increasingly difficult to make the case that the club could not be better managed. I accept that it will not be easy to find an improvement. I respectfully suggest that those who speak of Gerrard or Lampard coming in are delusional. Why would Gerrard leave Rangers for Palace. But at the moment we are trapped in a sort of Kafkaesque nightmare where in every press conference RH talks about how well the opposition is playing and afterwards what world-class goals we conceded. And opposition managers say what a legend our manager is as they anticipate three easy points.

 

crystal-purley Flag Purley 26 Jan 21 9.18pm

I agree with 90% of what you write but Fulham are 3rd bottom and averaging 2 points every three games and there are another 4 teams between us and them. My big worry is that we will stay up with a bit to spare and Roy stays on and Steve and the septics don't invest again. We need to either blood some of the youngsters and give the senior players a chance to refresh or carry on as we are and assume that five of the seven below don't overtake us. Which could well happen. Do we bite the bullet and drop Andros? I would and play him in the last 15 or 20 mins. I would play Benteke up front and Eze behind with Wilf on the right unless there is bad blood between Wilf and Benteke in which case Wilf stays and Ayew is up front who will not hold the ball up but will not lose the ball. Not a great time to be a Palace fan.

 


Enjoying getting up later and not having someone who knows better than me (apart from the missus of course).

Elwissthebest Flag Marlborough 26 Jan 21 10.14pm

Agreed, crystal-purley.
First get to 38 points and then blood youngsters. But we spend so long getting to that point, there's never time.
It's instructive , I think, that we've shipped Scott Banks off to Sturgeonland for the rest of the season. Perhaps the lad's homesick. His game is going to develop with Dunfermline? So he's not on the agenda for a run out for us in the near future, then.
If we don't produce our own, and we don't spend much anyway, the result would appear to be obvious.

 

Mathers Flag 26 Jan 21 11.22pm

Originally posted by Elwissthebest

Four scenarios:
1.The manager stays and we get relegated.
2.The manager changes and we still get relegated.
3.The manager stays and we stay up.
4.A new manager keeps us up.

The longer the manager stays, the more likely a change of manager fails to save us. We won't win many games in the last two months of the season. The 'winnable' games are coming up. If these games don't produce wins, we're toast anyway.

38 points might keep us up. If a team wins ten games a season that's probably enough with eight draws thrown in. I'm interested to hear serious suggestions of where four more wins will come.
RH has done Palace proud. But he's beyond his shelf life. His strength was to produce teams that were hard to score against and could break quickly. Well, that's not true any more. 4-0 at Chelsea and Citeh, 0-7 Liverpool, three more tonight. Goal difference is unlikely to be our '39th point'.
When we are a goal or two behind, he's a rabbit in the headlights. I just don't get this argument about his tactical acumen. When did a tactical substitution swing the game in our favour? I don't know whether Eze for Schlupp against Sheff. Utd counts as a tactical sub.
How many players has he actually improved? Again, serious suggestions welcome. It's not hard to point to those players who have seriously declined under his leadership.
'Sleepwalking' as a club because players have just become too old for the job: Ward, McArthur, Cahill, Dann. All fine players in their time. When players age, they age quickly.
23 points half way through the season has given us a false sense of security. The 'be careful what you wish for' mentality is curiously conservative. It's certainly increasingly difficult to make the case that the club could not be better managed. I accept that it will not be easy to find an improvement. I respectfully suggest that those who speak of Gerrard or Lampard coming in are delusional. Why would Gerrard leave Rangers for Palace. But at the moment we are trapped in a sort of Kafkaesque nightmare where in every press conference RH talks about how well the opposition is playing and afterwards what world-class goals we conceded. And opposition managers say what a legend our manager is as they anticipate three easy points.

Spot on. We have become far too complacent is every aspect. We have kept faith with RH despite the performances and results falling off a cliff in the last 12 months. We have kept hold of too many players on big contracts and way past their best. And the craziest thing is we assume these changes can all wait until the summer as we can’t get relegated. Not sure how many more defeats we will have to suffer before reality sets in!

 

Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 26 Jan 21 11.48pm

I agree that that current form is alarming and we are heading in the wrong direction.

For any bottom half team it's the ability not to concede goals that keeps you up and the defensive performances and record is the biggest cause for alarm IMO.

 

Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jan 21 12.07am

Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid

I agree that that current form is alarming and we are heading in the wrong direction.

For any bottom half team it's the ability not to concede goals that keeps you up and the defensive performances and record is the biggest cause for alarm IMO.

Today,all W.Ham's goals were as a result of crosses.
Against Man C, Stones scored his first from a cross and his second was when he reacted quickest to a corner which wasn't cleared.

I do think Guaita should dominate more when the ball is crossed from wide positions, in fact I cannot recall the last time he came out and caught a ball in such situations.
He has made some excellent saves, but he doesn't dominate his box and his kicking is not the best.

 

Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 27 Jan 21 12.12am

Originally posted by Willo

Today,all W.Ham's goals were as a result of crosses.
Against Man C, Stones scored his first from a cross and his second was when he reacted quickest to a corner which wasn't cleared.

I do think Guaita should dominate more when the ball is crossed from wide positions, in fact I cannot recall the last time he came out and caught a ball in such situations.
He has made some excellent saves, but he doesn't dominate his box and his kicking is not the best.

I think he's generally been ok on crosses and punches well. I also think if the players in front of him performed at a similar level we'd be fine.

 

thai-eagle Flag chiang mai 27 Jan 21 12.59am

Previous Hodgson crew tell the same story - his training methods are boring the pants off the players. Maybe they just go through the motions during the week, not giving 100%?
And why should they? The same dross week is in the starting line up in and week out. There seems to be no plan when we have the ball, the amount of wrong passes is embarassing, and let us be honest - it could easily have been six or seven against the Hammers.
Our veteran "warriors" are simply not up to the task anymore. It seems the manager truly has lost the plot and he is too stubborn to make drastic changes.

 

sprites Flag Auckland 27 Jan 21 1.11am

Can't argue with any of that, unfortunately.

As a side note, at least Cahill showed some passion to put things right in his post match interview.

 

Daddyorc Flag Atlantic Highlands, NJ 27 Jan 21 1.12am

Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid

I think he's generally been ok on crosses and punches well. I also think if the players in front of him performed at a similar level we'd be fine.

While I agree with the crosses comment, there's no way the first goal was his fault, Kouyate left his man (Antonio), and he flipped it into the box.

The second goal, maybe, but it was a mistake by the defense again.

The 3rd goal, also free header. Tough to say if any goalkeeper would have gone out to meet that.

I think it's more man marking than the GK's problem.

All of that being said, I think this is Roy's last season. We are very unlikely to go down.

I know this isn't the "method" in coaching, but I would take on Lampard as an assistant manager for the rest of the season with an understanding he will take over at the end of the season. Good way to transition. And honestly he will definitely be more attack minded and will have 4 months to see what he has.

 

sprites Flag Auckland 27 Jan 21 1.27am

Mate you say 'I would take on Lampard' as if he's going to want to come here. I'm not sure he would. He'll need time to lick his wounds before getting back into things, I'd imagine.

Originally posted by Daddyorc

While I agree with the crosses comment, there's no way the first goal was his fault, Kouyate left his man (Antonio), and he flipped it into the box.

The second goal, maybe, but it was a mistake by the defense again.

The 3rd goal, also free header. Tough to say if any goalkeeper would have gone out to meet that.

I think it's more man marking than the GK's problem.

All of that being said, I think this is Roy's last season. We are very unlikely to go down.

I know this isn't the "method" in coaching, but I would take on Lampard as an assistant manager for the rest of the season with an understanding he will take over at the end of the season. Good way to transition. And honestly he will definitely be more attack minded and will have 4 months to see what he has.

 

HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 27 Jan 21 2.01am

Doing all the points per game etc it is very hard to envisage any scenario where any of the current bottom three turn around their points per game and we reverse to a point where we are in danger.

Having said that, watching performances like last night is miserable, give me 17th now if we are going to play like that ( except first and last five minutes ) and no need for masochistic viewing.

Starting team next week should be team that finished with Clyne in for Ward.

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

sprites Flag Auckland 27 Jan 21 3.11am

Originally posted by HKOwen

Doing all the points per game etc it is very hard to envisage any scenario where any of the current bottom three turn around their points per game and we reverse to a point where we are in danger.

Having said that, watching performances like last night is miserable, give me 17th now if we are going to play like that ( except first and last five minutes ) and no need for masochistic viewing.

Starting team next week should be team that finished with Clyne in for Ward.

Or a completely different one. For example,

Butland

Clyne - Tomkins - Sakho/Kelly - PVA

Ayew - McCarthy - Riederwald - Eze

Mateta - Batshuyai


Couldn't be worse than today surely?

 

HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 27 Jan 21 6.12am

Keep Guaita

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Happy Idiot Flag Selsdon 27 Jan 21 7.20am

'Starting team next week should be team that finished with Clyne in for Ward.'

Yes HKO. Except I'd like to see A Defender in for Kouyate who assisted the first two WH goals yesterday and would have had a third but for Antonio's bad luck. Tompkins hopefully, but a defender please.

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 27 Jan 21 8.35am

Originally posted by sprites

Or a completely different one. For example,

Butland

Clyne - Tomkins - Sakho/Kelly - PVA

Ayew - McCarthy - Riederwald - Eze

Mateta - Batshuyai


Couldn't be worse than today surely?

I would like to see Bats start with the new guy and Zaha on the wing instead of Townsend. We need to see if Bats can make it and give him 4/5 games.

 


One more point

Booted Eagle Flag Bristol 27 Jan 21 9.36am

Originally posted by Elwissthebest

Agreed, crystal-purley.
First get to 38 points and then blood youngsters. But we spend so long getting to that point, there's never time.
It's instructive , I think, that we've shipped Scott Banks off to Sturgeonland for the rest of the season. Perhaps the lad's homesick. His game is going to develop with Dunfermline? So he's not on the agenda for a run out for us in the near future, then.
If we don't produce our own, and we don't spend much anyway, the result would appear to be obvious.

Unfortunately that hasn't happened under Roy in any of the previous seasons as far as I can tell. Vaguely remember him mentioning previously that league positions were too important to do this. Not sure if it was him dictating or the club based on finances ? Last season we were in such dire form at the end that he blindly kept faith with the squad when changes might of actually helped !?! Must wonder how low the bar must go before we do see some home grown players. Expect the same this season with the youngsters.

Unless the gap to the bottom 3 closes then Roy will stay in charge. I'm hoping for a change in the summer though. As mentioned Lampard/Gerrard no thanks. Thomas Frank from Brentford would be a good shout but if they get to the PL he will probably stay with them.

Edited by Booted Eagle (27 Jan 2021 9.41am)

Edited by Booted Eagle (27 Jan 2021 9.41am)

 


“ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ”
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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Jan 21 12.14pm

I won't claim to know more than the coaching staff but is it not obvous that we look better with Riedewald on the pitch?

He has a pass in him and runs off the ball. Surely it is clear that our midfield is so static with McArthur and Mila. One of them has to be sacrificed.
Time to end the Benteke farce as well. Play Batshyui and Ayew or the new guy up front and with Eze behind them. Stick Wilf back on the wing and sign a better winger than increasingly poor Townsend for the other side.
Sacking the manager is not the answer now. He just needs better options and a little less loyalty to bang average players. It might also help if we signed a centre half who actually remained fit for more than two games in a row.

 

The Dolphin Flag 27 Jan 21 1.13pm

If we continue to play the way that we are currently then I forecast 34 points by the end of the season.
Hopefully that will not be the case but i cannot see things changing under Hodgson - he has had - a busted flush now.
Nice Man, tremendous career but please let him go and asap.

 

southnorwoodhill Flag 27 Jan 21 1.32pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

If we continue to play the way that we are currently then I forecast 34 points by the end of the season.
Hopefully that will not be the case but i cannot see things changing under Hodgson - he has had - a busted flush now.
Nice Man, tremendous career but please let him go and asap.

Not sure we'll make that total, we have the second highest goals against tally in the league! Despite the pundits reeling off the cliche "Hodgson's teams are difficult to break down" cobblers, this season has been anything but a defensive masterclass - the myth is busted, and now that is gone with one dimensional Croydon Roy there's nothing else but the inevitable slide.

 

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