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June 24 2021 8.09pm

Trans in sport

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 May 21 2.28pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Complete nonsense self indulgent celeb.

The problem with this non binary rubbish is that they are easily offended about pronouns and have zero sympathy for the rest of us.

For instance you meet someone for the first time and you have no idea that they are non binary so you use the wrong pronouns.

Yesterday I was greeting people at the Vaccine Centre and a man and woman approach me he was a few feet in front of her. I said are you both together and then stumbled on my words they both laughed and she said "yes I am his wife if that what you were trying to say and not sure if you should."

This rubbish just ties us norms up in knots trying not to offend anyone. By the way I self identify as a black man even though I am biologically white, but that okay isn't it?

I always thought you were Rustie Lee. I must have been wrong.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 May 21 2.41pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

It only applies to grass root levels, so nothing to do with the international game.

Seems like there are some restrictions but it lacks the RFU's rule of risk assessing transwomen over a certain size/weight.

I don't agree with it but it seems that only 30 transwomen are looking to participate in England. The attention its getting is completely disproportionate to the size of the issue. The unions have now stuck a rule in place and put the issue to bed. Grassroots womens teams can always refuse to play a team if they turn up on a Saturday with a gigantic transwoman. You cant force women to play against a transgender team if you want to. Fixture cancellation against teams that act like a bunch of aresholes are frequent in the armature game.

Teams fielding ringers would be a more frequently encountered issue, or ones that claim they don't have an experienced front row to avoid competitive scrums. Issues that effect thousands of games don't get the same attention as an issues that affect a handful as it's not emotive.

I'd question, if (presumably effeminate) transwomen really want to play rugby in any significant numbers and how much difference it would actually make?

Seems like its largely a emotive and theoretical argument for a problem that affects so few people it's almost impossible to identify anyone whose directly affected by it.

Typically of todays society, where everyone gets really worked up by issues that don't really affect anyone's day to day life. Deciding things are absolute truths based on what their side of the media have told them and getting outraged.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek but I was interested in your reply.
This has been quite badly affecting biological women in a few sports.
The main place I remember this coming up was Aussie Rules - obviously pretty physical. A few seasons ago a lower league man became trans. She then tore it up in the women's leagues. I think it's Helen Mounie, I could look it up but you'll find it if you like.
Taking a case to play in the highest pro league right now. Helen is a fine size with a nice set of hair.
I can't see it being fair on women in sport and there's a lot going on in underage women's sports all over. US athletics trials are one but different rules for different states.
Of course, if you don't agree you get called transphobic - which shuts down debate. Plenty of parents in the states are not laying down and taking it. Plenty of court cases - even federal, perhaps supreme court now (I think it's called that).
Certainly is an emotive issue for those on both sides. I'm old enough to not be directly affected and my kids aren't that sporty, but I do find it an interesting debate that's going to be with us for a while. It reflects on wider society and all the current labelling kind of rolled into a small but trans-national and trans-sport area. The outcomes will be major for quite a lot of people.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View grumpymort's Profile grumpymort Flag UK/Thailand 21 May 21 3.19pm Send a Private Message to grumpymort Add grumpymort as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Complete nonsense self indulgent celeb.

The problem with this non binary rubbish is that they are easily offended about pronouns and have zero sympathy for the rest of us.

For instance you meet someone for the first time and you have no idea that they are non binary so you use the wrong pronouns.

Yesterday I was greeting people at the Vaccine Centre and a man and woman approach me he was a few feet in front of her. I said are you both together and then stumbled on my words they both laughed and she said "yes I am his wife if that what you were trying to say and not sure if you should."

This rubbish just ties us norms up in knots trying not to offend anyone. By the way I self identify as a black man even though I am biologically white, but that okay isn't it?


I agree it is all made up words to suit useless agendas.

We have two genders male or female this is science fact.

If someone wants to use other terms go for it that is their choice but at the end of the day no matter what you are still a male or female. (I dont understand why they get so offended by it biology doesn't lie)

Well race is another made up concept (very complex to get into)

Regarding trans in sport my comments above sum it up sure they can but you complete in the field your biology is (men are not equal to women no matter how much women like to keep coming out and claiming otherwise it is science facts)

Edited by grumpymort (21 May 2021 3.24pm)

 


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View jeeagles's Profile jeeagles Flag 21 May 21 3.22pm Send a Private Message to jeeagles Add jeeagles as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I was being a bit tongue in cheek but I was interested in your reply.
This has been quite badly affecting biological women in a few sports.
The main place I remember this coming up was Aussie Rules - obviously pretty physical. A few seasons ago a lower league man became trans. She then tore it up in the women's leagues. I think it's Helen Mounie, I could look it up but you'll find it if you like.
Taking a case to play in the highest pro league right now. Helen is a fine size with a nice set of hair.
I can't see it being fair on women in sport and there's a lot going on in underage women's sports all over. US athletics trials are one but different rules for different states.
Of course, if you don't agree you get called transphobic - which shuts down debate. Plenty of parents in the states are not laying down and taking it. Plenty of court cases - even federal, perhaps supreme court now (I think it's called that).
Certainly is an emotive issue for those on both sides. I'm old enough to not be directly affected and my kids aren't that sporty, but I do find it an interesting debate that's going to be with us for a while. It reflects on wider society and all the current labelling kind of rolled into a small but trans-national and trans-sport area. The outcomes will be major for quite a lot of people.

Never anything wrong with a bit of tongue and cheek. It's an internet forum, people now take any issue far too seriously.

You wonder what kind of kick "Helen" would get out of playing in a league where she is genetically superior. Reminds me a bit of the competitive dad on the fast show. [Link]

It does highlight the infequency of the issue that you have to go to the other side of the world to track down a clear example where this is an issue.

It's a shame so many people want to shut down so many debates. They seem to lack the confidence to have an open discussion, because they are scared they will be exposed. You know they've lost when they resort to insults. Just bide your time then chuck a handgrande their way and get the popcorn out.

I think we are at a very early stage of discussions about gender identity in general and the most likely outcome is everyone is wrong. Maybe in 50 years we'll start to get a grip with it.

You touched on one point about Safeguarding particularly in Women's sport. That's a much more pressing issue that effects more people more frequently. But if you bring it up you get accused of Whataboutary.

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Online Flag Horsham 21 May 21 4.24pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by grumpymort


I agree it is all made up words to suit useless agendas.

We have two genders male or female this is science fact.

If someone wants to use other terms go for it that is their choice but at the end of the day no matter what you are still a male or female. (I dont understand why they get so offended by it biology doesn't lie)

Well race is another made up concept (very complex to get into)

Regarding trans in sport my comments above sum it up sure they can but you complete in the field your biology is (men are not equal to women no matter how much women like to keep coming out and claiming otherwise it is science facts)

Edited by grumpymort (21 May 2021 3.24pm)


I agree

 

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View Henry of Peckham's Profile Henry of Peckham Flag Eton Mess 21 May 21 7.27pm Send a Private Message to Henry of Peckham Add Henry of Peckham as a friend

Can't we keep competitions for men and women and then have another for 'whatevers'? The all comers can have their own Olympics, coaches on trains (trans sport) and toilets.

I'm sick of hearing about them!

Edited by Henry of Peckham (21 May 2021 7.30pm)

 


Denial is not just a river in Egypt

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 22 May 21 2.20am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by grumpymort


I agree it is all made up words to suit useless agendas.

We have two genders male or female this is science fact.

If someone wants to use other terms go for it that is their choice but at the end of the day no matter what you are still a male or female. (I dont understand why they get so offended by it biology doesn't lie)

Well race is another made up concept (very complex to get into)

Regarding trans in sport my comments above sum it up sure they can but you complete in the field your biology is (men are not equal to women no matter how much women like to keep coming out and claiming otherwise it is science facts)

Edited by grumpymort (21 May 2021 3.24pm)

While I definitely agree that biology should weigh heavily in our decision making (ruling out trans women taking part in womens sport for instance), it pays to realise that there can be a distinction between the meaning of 'biological sex' and 'gender'. Any trans person claiming that they were never their birth sex to begin with I agree, is clearly a fantasist. However the full meaning of 'gender' can include yet extends beyond that of biological sex, to social and culture differences between the sexes and notions of masculinity and femininity which are not 'exclusive' to a sex even though they are more common to it.

A notion of 'other genders' or in-between types is common in many cultures (two spirit etc) and always has been. A person's 'gender identity' when similar to the opposite sex presents the question of how we refer to them. Being that the vast majority of us don't ever need to consider anything outside of 'male' or 'female' it actually encourages and makes 'some sense' for someone who acts like the opposite sex and may 'sometimes' be near indistinguishable from them to view and refer to themselves as that sex in daily life (even if they aren't biologically) despite certain realities that can't be avoided (like this sports example).

As for race, pretty much spot on I'd say. Race is far more interpretative and less cut and dry than 'biological sex'. Variations between different acknowledged 'races' are much, much smaller compared than variations within those groups, to the point where it's perfectly possible for two people of European descent to share more alleles (variants of specific genes) with an Asian person than each other. Not genetically closer as such, but indicative of how poor and limited racial classifications are. The best way to know an individuals DNA is to study it. People obsessed with DNA on racial or identity grounds, typically have little interest in what it actually tells us.


Edited by BlueJay (22 May 2021 2.31am)

 

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