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October 4 2022 5.39am

Happy Centenary to the Ulster Border

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Sep 22 10.01am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Outside of all the flag-waving and Disney inspired 'Orish' rose-tinted glasses, can anybody seriously offer one reason why the average inhabitant of Northern Ireland would be better off as a citizen of Eire rather then the UK?

Looking for practical reasons here. Matters of everyday existence. For example, something as mundane as say a visit to see your Doctor? What advantages does an inhabitant of Dublin have over their counterpart in Belfast?

The dole is 210 a week in Ireland. You can easily get disability which is more like 270 a week, by saying you're an alcoholic or have anxiety. College and university is really cheap, almost free, although you will have absolutely no chance of getting accommodation. You will by no means be able to find, let alone afford, a rental property.
On the flip side, healthcare, prices, roads, transport are sh1t. When I say sh1t - often non existent. For one example, from many: my son needed some physio as a child - he was around four. Last year, we got a letter - a physio appointment came up - he was 13. We had forgotten about it altogether. In some ways, it gave us a bit of a laugh. However, when you think about it, and particularly if you are in pain, it's just not funny.
To sort things here, we call Joe Duffy - kind of Ireland's answer to Esther Rantzen. He's a radio presenter who shames the government into action. It's people's last resort. It's not even funny.

 


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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 23 Sep 22 11.24am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The dole is 210 a week in Ireland. You can easily get disability which is more like 270 a week, by saying you're an alcoholic or have anxiety. College and university is really cheap, almost free, although you will have absolutely no chance of getting accommodation. You will by no means be able to find, let alone afford, a rental property.
On the flip side, healthcare, prices, roads, transport are sh1t. When I say sh1t - often non existent. For one example, from many: my son needed some physio as a child - he was around four. Last year, we got a letter - a physio appointment came up - he was 13. We had forgotten about it altogether. In some ways, it gave us a bit of a laugh. However, when you think about it, and particularly if you are in pain, it's just not funny.
To sort things here, we call Joe Duffy - kind of Ireland's answer to Esther Rantzen. He's a radio presenter who shames the government into action. It's people's last resort. It's not even funny.

Well once the glorious reunification has occurred the voters of Eire will soon discover that NI is massively subsidised by the UK taxpayer and it's now their problem. More likely the Irish politicians will start demanding that the UK continue to fund it.

Of course if they want reparations perhaps they should look to Scotland after all it was James VI who started the plantation policy so I think it should be the SNP who pony up

 


One more point

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Sep 22 11.38am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Well once the glorious reunification has occurred the voters of Eire will soon discover that NI is massively subsidised by the UK taxpayer and it's now their problem. More likely the Irish politicians will start demanding that the UK continue to fund it.

Of course if they want reparations perhaps they should look to Scotland after all it was James VI who started the plantation policy so I think it should be the SNP who pony up

Just to let you know that the Plantations were a Tudor policy first:

[Link]

To balance some of the rhetoric and alleviate any collective guilt, proper research - rather than any Nationalistic stuff that Ireland is full of - has factually demonstrated that there were around 50% Irish living on the plantations (so not quite a little bit of England in Ireland) as apparently obligations and tenancies were often more favourable in English law than in Irish law. So all is not quite as it might seem at first sight.
For Cromwell and Drogheda, above, I could counter that most of Drogheda were Anglo-Irish, or even Old English in Cromwellian times. Their main issue was choosing the wrong side and being of the 'wrong' religion. I could also temper that by saying that, once again, research has shown a large amount of Catholic Irish in Cromwell's army. He paid and fed people, after all, which was not as common as one might think.
It's a funny old area Irish history. I'm not talking about revisionism, I'm talking about factual research - rather than the mythological history many people enjoy.

 


Patrick Vieira's
Red and Blue Army!

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 23 Sep 22 12.03pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Just to let you know that the Plantations were a Tudor policy first:

[Link]

To balance some of the rhetoric and alleviate any collective guilt, proper research - rather than any Nationalistic stuff that Ireland is full of - has factually demonstrated that there were around 50% Irish living on the plantations (so not quite a little bit of England in Ireland) as apparently obligations and tenancies were often more favourable in English law than in Irish law. So all is not quite as it might seem at first sight.
For Cromwell and Drogheda, above, I could counter that most of Drogheda were Anglo-Irish, or even Old English in Cromwellian times. Their main issue was choosing the wrong side and being of the 'wrong' religion. I could also temper that by saying that, once again, research has shown a large amount of Catholic Irish in Cromwell's army. He paid and fed people, after all, which was not as common as one might think.
It's a funny old area Irish history. I'm not talking about revisionism, I'm talking about factual research - rather than the mythological history many people enjoy.

My bad I meant the plantation of Ulster was by the Jock king. You are correct about the rest of Ireland.

I wish it had never happened but it did and the best thing the UK can do is try and untangle itself from it but there is always the risk that a democratic vote to rejoin will cause another civil war if the protestants refuse to accept it.

 


One more point

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 23 Sep 22 12.07pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

in the language of today :

Plantation = Colonization, Ethnic Cleansing or a War-Crime.

However, the history of Ulster can no more be undone than giving Manhatten back to the Native Americans.

So lets let the Skyscrapers stay on 5th Avenue, and the Scottish-Prods stay in Antrim. NI is now British. The real irish don't want it.

------------------------------------------

And anyway, the Prods in Ulster all identify as Brits. Loyal and true to the Crown. They regard the Southern Irish as 'foreigners' and the South as a Popish Banana republic.

The Prods feel more affinity with the Indians of Southall, the Afro-Caribbeans of Notting Hill or the Jews of North London.....the last fact being their hardcore support of the State of Israel.

And as they are British, they must surely stay in the UK ? Ideally without many 'irish' neighbours living in the next street.

The original creation of NI did never envisage a Catholic majority. And that presents some new problems.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (23 Sep 2022 12.27pm)

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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View corkery's Profile corkery Flag Cork City 23 Sep 22 3.25pm Send a Private Message to corkery Add corkery as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The dole is 210 a week in Ireland. You can easily get disability which is more like 270 a week, by saying you're an alcoholic or have anxiety. College and university is really cheap, almost free, although you will have absolutely no chance of getting accommodation. You will by no means be able to find, let alone afford, a rental property.
On the flip side, healthcare, prices, roads, transport are sh1t. When I say sh1t - often non existent. For one example, from many: my son needed some physio as a child - he was around four. Last year, we got a letter - a physio appointment came up - he was 13. We had forgotten about it altogether. In some ways, it gave us a bit of a laugh. However, when you think about it, and particularly if you are in pain, it's just not funny.
To sort things here, we call Joe Duffy - kind of Ireland's answer to Esther Rantzen. He's a radio presenter who shames the government into action. It's people's last resort. It's not even funny.

You forgot the 900 fuel allowance and 500 Christmas bonus for the dole. The country owes 240B and still overspends.


Edited by corkery (23 Sep 2022 3.26pm)

 


We'll never die

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 23 Sep 22 8.34pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by corkery

You forgot the 900 fuel allowance and 500 Christmas bonus for the dole. The country owes 240B and still overspends.


Edited by corkery (23 Sep 2022 3.26pm)

One of my favourite moments of political malarkey was the night the R.O.I parliament voted through the bailout for the Irish banks. Like something out of a surreal, f***ed up, dark as f*** comedy of errors.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View corkery's Profile corkery Flag Cork City 23 Sep 22 9.36pm Send a Private Message to corkery Add corkery as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

One of my favourite moments of political malarkey was the night the R.O.I parliament voted through the bailout for the Irish banks. Like something out of a surreal, f***ed up, dark as f*** comedy of errors.

Joke is on Europe. The money will never be paid back. Not at the way this place spends.

 


We'll never die

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 24 Sep 22 12.58am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by corkery

Joke is on Europe. The money will never be paid back. Not at the way this place spends.


It is the cost of living that stuns me over there. My sister tells us horror stories of the cost of doctors visits, how much she had to pay for things such as my nieces sitting exams (and then having to pay extra to have them marked).

The R.O.I has no military to speak off (The RAF do all its air-defence), there is no NHS along the lines of the UK. Is all the money just spent on hand-outs? My sister runs the HR for a hotel chain and has a shocking time trying to get any Irish to work there. Its almost all Europeans applying for jobs.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View corkery's Profile corkery Flag Cork City 24 Sep 22 7.39am Send a Private Message to corkery Add corkery as a friend

Originally posted by Matov


It is the cost of living that stuns me over there. My sister tells us horror stories of the cost of doctors visits, how much she had to pay for things such as my nieces sitting exams (and then having to pay extra to have them marked).

The R.O.I has no military to speak off (The RAF do all its air-defence), there is no NHS along the lines of the UK. Is all the money just spent on hand-outs? My sister runs the HR for a hotel chain and has a shocking time trying to get any Irish to work there. Its almost all Europeans applying for jobs.

If you're a pensioner or on disability you get free travel. I think something like 1.5m out of 4m adults have free travel. Says it all. By law, 20% of all houses must be a freebie. You pay 350,000 for a house and the house right next to you is 30 a week.


Edited by corkery (24 Sep 2022 8.12am)

 


We'll never die

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 24 Sep 22 11.05am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by corkery

If you're a pensioner or on disability you get free travel. I think something like 1.5m out of 4m adults have free travel. Says it all. By law, 20% of all houses must be a freebie. You pay 350,000 for a house and the house right next to you is 30 a week.


Edited by corkery (24 Sep 2022 8.12am)

Those houses tend to go to our refugees now, rather than the people on the waiting list for years, don't they?

 


Patrick Vieira's
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View corkery's Profile corkery Flag Cork City 24 Sep 22 12.34pm Send a Private Message to corkery Add corkery as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Those houses tend to go to our refugees now, rather than the people on the waiting list for years, don't they?

No. They don't get social housing. Refugees(Ukrainians) go to hotels. The fake ones from Birmingham end up in Direct Provision camps.

 


We'll never die

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