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October 22 2021 4.54pm

aukus.

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View kuge's Profile kuge Flag Peckham 19 Sep 21 4.09pm Send a Private Message to kuge Add kuge as a friend

A Chinese invasion of Taiwan is I think very unlikely, It is just not the Chinese way of doing things. They are playing the very, very long game. That is not to say that they donít want to give the impression that they might invade. In fact, thatís their entire point. They are following the Ďspeak slowing and carry a big stickí philosophy. Realpolitik will carry the day.

The development of Chinese power in Asia is not something that they see being completed in five years, rather it is a fifty-year project. The same is true in relation to the investments they have made in Africa. Both in infrastructure and in education they know that the advantages will play out twenty to thirty years from now. They also know that the US does not have a plan that will continue much beyond the end of each presidency.

Tens of thousands of Africans are currently being educated for free in Chinese Universities. They will go home fully engaged with the idea that China is Africaís friend. And in general, they have made a much better go of being development partners in Africa than the west has. The Chinese will not tolerate corruption, they want value for money.

So much of this goes unobserved in the west, China has been trying to influence Taiwanese politics for decades. Not that successfully as yet, but these will be the strategies they choose. The international isolation of Taiwan makes it clear that no one is going to stand behind them militarily. They wonít even stand up for Taiwan in relation to sport. If no one is supporting Taiwan how can there be a war? The AUKUS thing is just a bit of bravado and button polishing.

China have no interest in a war in Taiwan. What would be the point?

Oh, and why all the anti-French stuff. They have behaved honourably. Why should they not be pissed off that a deal was made and then broken?


Edited by kuge (19 Sep 2021 4.10pm)

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 19 Sep 21 4.19pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

If the West wishes to protect its interests in the Indo-Pacific, then France and other European powers need to be on the same page as the US and its Anglophone allies. And right now both sides are not even reading the same book.

So basically the objective of aukus to give increased security and military protection in the region, has actually been undermined by this split.

Who appointed the USA UK and OZ anyway, not other countries in the region itself most of whom have economic ties to China.

It looks like by about 2010, Oz will have 8/10 new subs which will not be armed.

So what.

Looks like the USA and UK particularly have grossly over-stepped the mark.


 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Online Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Sep 21 4.31pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

If the West wishes to protect its interests in the Indo-Pacific, then France and other European powers need to be on the same page as the US and its Anglophone allies. And right now both sides are not even reading the same book.

So basically the objective of aukus to give increased security and military protection in the region, has actually been undermined by this split.

Who appointed the USA UK and OZ anyway, not other countries in the region itself most of whom have economic ties to China.

It looks like by about 2010, Oz will have 8/10 new subs which will not be armed.

So what.

Looks like the USA and UK particularly have grossly over-stepped the mark.


Australia is free to do business as it pleases. Originally a very big deal was made out of France getting the contract. The UK was snubbed. The French have not delivered and now Australia is free to dump them. A lot of the rhetoric on here seems to suggest somehow that China are the good guys and Britain, the US and Australia are sabre rattling.

The simple questions could be: are China great, are the people free?
Have China been sabre rattling for years in the are? Yet now some countries push back, but they are wrong, how exactly does that work?
Loads of the countries in that region are arming. Do we need to vilify them too? They haven't bought French either. France throwing a tantrum against English speaking influence in an election year, who'd have thought it?

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View kuge's Profile kuge Flag Peckham 19 Sep 21 4.32pm Send a Private Message to kuge Add kuge as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

If the West wishes to protect its interests in the Indo-Pacific, then France and other European powers need to be on the same page as the US and its Anglophone allies. And right now both sides are not even reading the same book.

So basically the objective of aukus to give increased security and military protection in the region, has actually been undermined by this split.

Who appointed the USA UK and OZ anyway, not other countries in the region itself most of whom have economic ties to China.

It looks like by about 2010, Oz will have 8/10 new subs which will not be armed.

So what.

Looks like the USA and UK particularly have grossly over-stepped the mark.


I agree if there is any hope of curbing Chinaís ambitions will come from an alliance of all the interested parties. Having two teams doing the same thing who are also not on speaking terms is exactly what they might have wished for. Itís almost like the people organising this stuff donít think it through.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Online Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Sep 21 5.15pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Beefy negotiated the whole deal.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 19 Sep 21 11.47pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Where is the British military base in Singapore?


I have visited Singapore a number of times and never seen either one.

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

Imagine putting a negative spin on Britain making billions out of this agreement.

Britain has Military bases in Australia, Singapore & Brunei, we are perfectly entitled to protect our interests in the region.
China has been preparing for war for a very long time, we can either continue to ignore it like we did with Germany or we can finally do something and help protect our allies in the region until the australian armed forces can fully pick up the baton an lead in the pacific.

Closer to home it is again the uk & the us taking a leading role in reinforcing/training the Baltic states, we currently have a large presence in Estonia.
Russia has made no secret of its desire to have year round wet ports and the Balkans are ripe for the Russians to invade, they have form in recent years too.

This leads on to my next point, the British military are currently assisting France with the conflict in Mali and by Proxy were at war with Russia as Mali has been flooded with a motherload of Russian PMC's working against the interests of the french.


Edited by Ouzo Dan (19 Sep 2021 11.27am)

Edited by HKOwen (20 Sep 2021 10.52am)

 


A lie will travel half way around the world before the truth has got it's shoes on.

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 19 Sep 21 11.48pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

2010? So these new subs have a time travel capability?

Originally posted by steeleye20

If the West wishes to protect its interests in the Indo-Pacific, then France and other European powers need to be on the same page as the US and its Anglophone allies. And right now both sides are not even reading the same book.

So basically the objective of aukus to give increased security and military protection in the region, has actually been undermined by this split.

Who appointed the USA UK and OZ anyway, not other countries in the region itself most of whom have economic ties to China.

It looks like by about 2010, Oz will have 8/10 new subs which will not be armed.

So what.

Looks like the USA and UK particularly have grossly over-stepped the mark.


Edited by HKOwen (19 Sep 2021 11.48pm)

 


A lie will travel half way around the world before the truth has got it's shoes on.

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 19 Sep 21 11.50pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Now we are in complete agreement about Orange 1290

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

You honestly dont have a clue do you?

Edited by HKOwen (19 Sep 2021 11.50pm)

 


A lie will travel half way around the world before the truth has got it's shoes on.

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 19 Sep 21 11.52pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Like an independent Scotland and the EU

Originally posted by Orange1290

Well, 'applying' and being accepted are two very different things.

 


A lie will travel half way around the world before the truth has got it's shoes on.

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 20 Sep 21 1.32am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

You are actually quoting Wikipedia not " the chinese "

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

[Link]

Im directly quoting the chinese here, its not how I would describe you.

You post purely on emotion which includes a weird hatred of Britain.
Seek help.

 


A lie will travel half way around the world before the truth has got it's shoes on.

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 20 Sep 21 8.39am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

France and Germany have been pursuing bilateral deals with China for 30 years. German and French car plants, none from other EU countries.

Let's have no tears for France over AUKUS. The issue is French elections next year and this will hurt Macron, which is a good thing.

Let's not pretend there is any European interest being pursued, only countries within Europe looking after their own interests.

IMHO, anyone who would rather the jobs went to France must really hate the UK

Originally posted by steeleye20

If the West wishes to protect its interests in the Indo-Pacific, then France and other European powers need to be on the same page as the US and its Anglophone allies. And right now both sides are not even reading the same book.

So basically the objective of aukus to give increased security and military protection in the region, has actually been undermined by this split.

Who appointed the USA UK and OZ anyway, not other countries in the region itself most of whom have economic ties to China.

It looks like by about 2010, Oz will have 8/10 new subs which will not be armed.

So what.

Looks like the USA and UK particularly have grossly over-stepped the mark.


Edited by HKOwen (20 Sep 2021 8.40am)

 


A lie will travel half way around the world before the truth has got it's shoes on.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Sep 21 9.09am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

Where is the British military base in Singapore?

Similarly, where is the Australian base in Singapore?

I have visited Singapore a number of times and never seen either one.

They are both based at Sembawang, but are tiny compared to what used to be there. Ours has only 2 or 3 personnel and exists to organise bunkering facilities for visiting ships. I know because in 2018 I visited and had lunch with their officers at "HMS Terror". This used to be the officers club at our naval base but is now run by the US military who now dominate everything there.

Sembawang dockyard, which was our naval base, is now a privately owned business in which we lease an office.

I was there to lay a wreath on the memorial to the sinking of the HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse in 1941 by Japanese bombers. My father, who was on the POW survived but lost many shipmates. Security was very high, but I was given a tour of the dockyard and saw where the POW was berthed before its last voyage.

The dockyard is huge, and we must have had a very significant presence there at one time. Not now.

 

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