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December 3 2021 10.03pm

Why have refereeing standards plummeted so low?

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 20 Sep 21 3.50pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by the silurian


and guaranteed if we do as you suggest our players will be booked/sent off as we are not one of the favoured clubs....FFS Clattenberg was as bent as they come, theses refs are worse..

Yep, playing to the PL tune ď help the big clubs at all costsĒ media outlets like Sky/MOTD are there to dismiss these theories by not showing controversial incidents involving those clubs. Until there is a fan rebellion (never going to happen) it will not change. This new ďruleĒ they are playing too, is nothing to do with free flowing football, it is so the interpretation can go in favour of certain clubs

 

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View bicycle repair man's Profile bicycle repair man 20 Sep 21 4.39pm Send a Private Message to bicycle repair man Add bicycle repair man as a friend

James Milner seemed to have license to kick any Palace player within kicking distance.

 

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View EagleinSF's Profile EagleinSF Online Flag San Fransisco 20 Sep 21 5.28pm Send a Private Message to EagleinSF Add EagleinSF as a friend

Originally posted by Tickled pink

Why was the foul on Benteke not even mentioned? had we had the penalty and scored they would have played somewhat differently.

The reason it was ignored by the ref was that it would've been a straight red for 'stopping a goal scoring chance'. Easier to just ignore. But how there was no VAR review is the question...

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 20 Sep 21 5.32pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

I'm loving the more lenient, less interventionist refereeing. If there is blame to be dished out regarding incorrect decisions, Iíd allocate it in three places in order of importance:

1. The honesty of the players
2. The expectation that no errors ever be made
3. Referees to a limited extent, and VAR to a slightly larger one

Players are highly competitive animals under enormous pressure to succeed, and will seek out any advantage until the rules are implemented in a way that prevents it. In the 80s hatchet men went through the back of forwards, so the tackle from behind was banned. In the 90s tough tacklers went over the top in midfield, so excessive force was banned. In the last ten years forwards have increasingly aimed to 'win' poxy, technically correct but morally dubious free kicks, a practise made even worse by the advent of VAR, because in super slow motion every contact loses context and looks worse. Now, hopefully, these threats to the spirit of the game are being addressed, just like serious foul play was.

Take Sterlings dive in the Euros semi final. Outrageous. Our national team cheated their way past a more deserving opponent, yet his actions generated no serious condemnation from his cheerleaders at the BBC, particularly Shearer who, some ten or so years ago gave the greatest insight to the mind of a competitive player when he coined the phrase 'The forward has the right to go down in that situation'. It is hugely damaging to place winning at all costs above the credibility of the game itself. Once again, football needed saving from footballers. Or perhaps more accurately, the sport needed saving from the professional industry.

If you paid money to watch a boxing match and one of them went over when he could have stayed up, youíd call it fraud, yet we have grown to accept it in football. Arseholes like Salah, Mane, Son, Vardy, Alli and particularly Kane throw themselves on the floor with absolutely no shame whatsoever at the slightest contact in the knowledge they will at best be rewarded and at worst not punished. And yes, Zaha goes in that category too. It kills the game, and threatens the whole point of even playing it.

The solution? If in doubt, donít give the foul. Players have proven they canít be trusted, so donít trust them.

It's great that referees are giving less soft free-kicks. It instantly leads to far better games, and to football having a chance to once again be a sport rather than a fraud-show. If that means the odd foul in our favour being missed, it's a price worth paying. It would have been nice to get a penalty at Anfield, but it's far better that Zaha runs at full backs with the aim of beating them rather than of going to ground as soon as he feels contact. The shift in culture is noticeable already.

Why did the ref not give the penalty at Liverpool? Because in normal time he didnít see it clearly enough. Why did VAR not see the foul on Benteke? Christ knows. Same reason it didnít see the very clear foul on Ronaldo at West Ham towards the end of the game. Perhaps they are so concerned with not killing the speed and emotion of the game that they are interfering less. Fine by me. I have no expectation whatsoever that every decision be correct, and the process for trying to achieve it is so awful that Iím far happier with the alternative.

As far as I'm concerned, I hope the refs will keep up the (generally) good work.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (20 Sep 2021 5.39pm)

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 20 Sep 21 7.22pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I'm loving the more lenient, less interventionist refereeing. If there is blame to be dished out regarding incorrect decisions, Iíd allocate it in three places in order of importance:

1. The honesty of the players
2. The expectation that no errors ever be made
3. Referees to a limited extent, and VAR to a slightly larger one

Players are highly competitive animals under enormous pressure to succeed, and will seek out any advantage until the rules are implemented in a way that prevents it. In the 80s hatchet men went through the back of forwards, so the tackle from behind was banned. In the 90s tough tacklers went over the top in midfield, so excessive force was banned. In the last ten years forwards have increasingly aimed to 'win' poxy, technically correct but morally dubious free kicks, a practise made even worse by the advent of VAR, because in super slow motion every contact loses context and looks worse. Now, hopefully, these threats to the spirit of the game are being addressed, just like serious foul play was.

Take Sterlings dive in the Euros semi final. Outrageous. Our national team cheated their way past a more deserving opponent, yet his actions generated no serious condemnation from his cheerleaders at the BBC, particularly Shearer who, some ten or so years ago gave the greatest insight to the mind of a competitive player when he coined the phrase 'The forward has the right to go down in that situation'. It is hugely damaging to place winning at all costs above the credibility of the game itself. Once again, football needed saving from footballers. Or perhaps more accurately, the sport needed saving from the professional industry.

If you paid money to watch a boxing match and one of them went over when he could have stayed up, youíd call it fraud, yet we have grown to accept it in football. Arseholes like Salah, Mane, Son, Vardy, Alli and particularly Kane throw themselves on the floor with absolutely no shame whatsoever at the slightest contact in the knowledge they will at best be rewarded and at worst not punished. And yes, Zaha goes in that category too. It kills the game, and threatens the whole point of even playing it.

The solution? If in doubt, donít give the foul. Players have proven they canít be trusted, so donít trust them.

It's great that referees are giving less soft free-kicks. It instantly leads to far better games, and to football having a chance to once again be a sport rather than a fraud-show. If that means the odd foul in our favour being missed, it's a price worth paying. It would have been nice to get a penalty at Anfield, but it's far better that Zaha runs at full backs with the aim of beating them rather than of going to ground as soon as he feels contact. The shift in culture is noticeable already.

Why did the ref not give the penalty at Liverpool? Because in normal time he didnít see it clearly enough. Why did VAR not see the foul on Benteke? Christ knows. Same reason it didnít see the very clear foul on Ronaldo at West Ham towards the end of the game. Perhaps they are so concerned with not killing the speed and emotion of the game that they are interfering less. Fine by me. I have no expectation whatsoever that every decision be correct, and the process for trying to achieve it is so awful that Iím far happier with the alternative.

As far as I'm concerned, I hope the refs will keep up the (generally) good work.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (20 Sep 2021 5.39pm)

All well and good if they consistent and donít show an obvious biased towards certain teams. If they canít do this, then the game has gone Iím afraid

 

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View Palace Old Geezer's Profile Palace Old Geezer Flag Midhurst 20 Sep 21 8.22pm Send a Private Message to Palace Old Geezer Add Palace Old Geezer as a friend

A terrific post from you BTP. My sentiments entirely, I just donít have the patience to type so much. But, well said.

 


Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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View Superhorns3's Profile Superhorns3 Flag Harpdenden 20 Sep 21 11.01pm Send a Private Message to Superhorns3 Add Superhorns3 as a friend

The general flow of the game has probably improved and refs are less fussy but we still see some really strange decisions made by either the on ref or even worse VAR.

Sure they wonít be perfect or get everything right but there were a few decisions which were questionable.

You guys certainly could have had a penalty and in reality Brighton could have lost against Leicester with that penalty ruled out and the Leicester 2nd disallowed goal given .

West Ham /Man U probably should have had a pen each.

But on the other hand VAR worked well at Burnley and Wolves plus allowed our 3rd goal at Norwich which was clearly onside .

You are right about Lineker and Co - wasnít moaning about VAR after the Denmark semi or FA cup final which Leicester won.

Edited by Superhorns3 (20 Sep 2021 11.03pm)

Edited by Superhorns3 (20 Sep 2021 11.04pm)

 

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View Qwijibo's Profile Qwijibo Flag Bournemouth 20 Sep 21 11.09pm Send a Private Message to Qwijibo Add Qwijibo as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

I do, give everything to and nothing against the big clubs, unless already winning easily, so they can say they do get decisions against them.
With regard to Brighton/ Leicester game, how awful was that? Obviously Leicester are a bit of a pain forever trying to get into CL places, so give decisions against them, especially against teams who will not challenge at top.
I am already getting fed up with the decisions this season ( not only against Palace) which are spoiling my enjoyment. I have already stopped watching MOTD, as their coverage is even more biased than usual

Yes, but why?

Man Utd could have had several this weekend, yet got none and conceded one.

Going back a while, we had loads, and some were generous. Back in 2005 we had loads too.


 

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 21 Sep 21 1.40am Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

1. The honesty of the players
2. The expectation that no errors ever be made
3. Referees to a limited extent, and VAR to a slightly larger one

Edited by TheBigToePunt (20 Sep 2021 5.39pm)

I have to say, reading this, I just thought "nail...head". I watch a lot of rugby when I'm not watching Palace and, I know everyone's sick of hearing it, but the fact is rugby proves that football players themselves go a long way to making referees better or worse, in this case worse. If you treat anyone with constant disrespect, try to con them on a more or less non-stop basis, and complain vociferously every time they make a decision you're pretty much guaranteed to get the worst performance possible out of them. That's basic common sense. If clubs want refereeing standards to improve, they might start by telling their own players to show refs some respect.

Television doesn't help; yes referees make mistakes (and usually front up to them too, far more often than players take responsibility for their mistakes) but I'm not sure it's productive to view every error in slow motion and analyse it to the nth degree, particularly when the original decision was made from a single vantage point and often not a good one at that, and in real time.

I don't think referees have gotten measurably worse in recent seasons. I think they're simply more exposed by being under the microscope now and working in a far less tolerant society in a game filled with millionaire prima donnas. The biggest problem, as I said, is the players. If you want better referees, act in ways that will bring out the best in them and make their jobs easier, not harder.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 21 Sep 21 1.50am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

All too often they find themselves in positions where they can do no right. The level of respect shown towards refs is near zero when compared to rugby for instance. I struggle to understand why anyone would even want the job.

 

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View viveasheagle's Profile viveasheagle Flag perth 21 Sep 21 6.37am Send a Private Message to viveasheagle Add viveasheagle as a friend

I think over the years the standard of refereeing has definitely improved as has the quality of the lines men and women ( current rule about not flagging straight way for an offside decision aside )
Not sure if it is just me though but i think John Moss is quite a bit behind the other refs in the divison and has been for a couple of years.
I don't think he biased but just misses to many incidents and makes to many error's. I thought in our game against Chelsea there were way to many decisions in their favour and vice versa in our home game against Spurs.

 

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View Superhorns3's Profile Superhorns3 Flag Harpdenden 21 Sep 21 11.16am Send a Private Message to Superhorns3 Add Superhorns3 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

All too often they find themselves in positions where they can do no right. The level of respect shown towards refs is near zero when compared to rugby for instance. I struggle to understand why anyone would even want the job.

Maybe mic the refs up so we can hear what their decisions are and why then it could stop the dissent and trying to influence the officials easily which players do and must make the refs uncertain.

 

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