You are here: Home > Message Board > Football Talk > Premier League Economics
January 17 2022 9.52am

Premier League Economics

Previous Topic | Next Topic


 

View oldyank's Profile oldyank Flag Reston 02 Nov 21 8.07pm Send a Private Message to oldyank Add oldyank as a friend

As a Yank, I need someone to explain the economic structure of the Premier League. From a distance it appears to me that 5 to 6 teams have a legitimate chance to win this year's title. The rest fight to stay out of relegation. Are you aware that in the past 25 years only 6 teams have won the title. Compare that with American football and baseball. In the past 25 years 14 teams have win the football "Super Bowl" and 14 teams have won the Baseball World Series. Why the discrepancy? In the Premier League ownership can spend as much as they want on players while in the 2 US leagues certain impediments are put on spending. Each league has a draft system that allows the team with the poorest record to draft new players first and those players are bound to a team for a certain number of years. Also both leagues have what is called a "Luxury tax." Where the ownership has to pay a substantial financial penalty for exceeding fixed number. I cannot see how the Premier League can continue to succeed with their current economic structure. Let's see what happens at Newcastle United now that Saudi Arabia has purchased the team.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Qwijibo's Profile Qwijibo Flag Bournemouth 02 Nov 21 11.03pm Send a Private Message to Qwijibo Add Qwijibo as a friend

Supposedly financial fair play is a thing. But it seems to be a futile gesture that merely pulls the drawbridge up for any clubs who secure investment, unless clubs find loop-holes. So the rich stay rich, and everyone else is a selling club.

Chelsea and Manchester City had substantial outside investment to kick start their empires, but theirs came prior to the rule change. In theory, regardless of how rich Palace's owners are, we couldn't do what Chelsea did around 2003/2004.

However, UEFA knowledge it doesn't work in it's current format:

[Link]

I'd guess this is to halt PSG, but they also seem to dislike Manchester City.

I have a feeling Mike Ashley spent so little on Newcastle that they can actually spend a lot and be within the rules. But seems more likely they'll just exploit the back door a la PSG.

I can't believe I'm actually going to say this... but Chelsea are an immaculately-run club. They focus on youth development, and they are self-sustainable - more so than Palace have been. We bought players who aged and had no-resale value. Chelsea make millions from loans, sales, sell-on clauses. Chelsea couldn't have got where they are today without Abramovich, but they are now a sustainable part of the elite, unlike Real Madrid and Barcelona.

It's easy to dislike City and Chelsea, but I personally cannot stand the arrogance of Real Madrid, and I do not give a s*** that they're f***ed. They're old money and they can't keep up. Why is new money less respectable than the established elite?

Bizarrely, Newcastle just don't seem to have a plan. Despite how long it took them to complete the sale, and having seen what Manchester City and Chelsea and PSG have done in the past, they seem to have bought a club, and now they're working out what to do next. I thought they'd have had their staff lined up months ago.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View MrRobbo's Profile MrRobbo Flag Purley 03 Nov 21 9.32am Send a Private Message to MrRobbo Add MrRobbo as a friend

Originally posted by oldyank

As a Yank, I need someone to explain the economic structure of the Premier League. From a distance it appears to me that 5 to 6 teams have a legitimate chance to win this year's title. The rest fight to stay out of relegation. Are you aware that in the past 25 years only 6 teams have won the title. Compare that with American football and baseball. In the past 25 years 14 teams have win the football "Super Bowl" and 14 teams have won the Baseball World Series. Why the discrepancy? In the Premier League ownership can spend as much as they want on players while in the 2 US leagues certain impediments are put on spending. Each league has a draft system that allows the team with the poorest record to draft new players first and those players are bound to a team for a certain number of years. Also both leagues have what is called a "Luxury tax." Where the ownership has to pay a substantial financial penalty for exceeding fixed number. I cannot see how the Premier League can continue to succeed with their current economic structure. Let's see what happens at Newcastle United now that Saudi Arabia has purchased the team.

That's about right.

But unfortunately, it will continue to succeed. This has been going on for years and hasn't deterred the punters yet. Inadvertently the big 6 bringing in all the Hollywood players makes the league more attractive, which in turn gives more cash to the other 14, which is why our 7-20 placed teams are better than any other league in the world.

That stat on diversity of winners in the NFL and MLB is amazing, but Iíd guess unique to the US? In reality the premiership is no different to any other major football league. Id suspect there are no more than 4 different La Liga winners in 25 years, 4 in Italy, France is a little more open but still only about 5. Iím pretty sure that in Portugal, only the big 3 have won more than 1 league title.

If anything, the US system feels pretty unique. And I must be honest, I love it.


 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 03 Nov 21 10.40am Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

I must admit, I've been trying to devise a theory which would be closer to the American draft system so that we have a more equitable Premier League. The best I can come up with is a form of 'Fantasy League' system whereby each player within a squad has a recognised value (balance sheet value?), and each match determines what players can be picked. For example if two teams are set to play each other and have the same rough squad value, then they can play whichever players they like. If a rich team has to play a 'lesser' team then their players value can only be, say, twice that of the opposing team. Therefore, when Man City play Norwich, Man City would be restricted as to who they can play (possibly even having to bring in junior players to make the cut). Yes, I know it's a big change but we as punters are already used to picking fantasy football teams with restricted values...and some of the big clubs are perhaps already using a similar system for early cup rounds.

Originally posted by MrRobbo

That's about right.

But unfortunately, it will continue to succeed. This has been going on for years and hasn't deterred the punters yet. Inadvertently the big 6 bringing in all the Hollywood players makes the league more attractive, which in turn gives more cash to the other 14, which is why our 7-20 placed teams are better than any other league in the world.

That stat on diversity of winners in the NFL and MLB is amazing, but Iíd guess unique to the US? In reality the premiership is no different to any other major football league. Id suspect there are no more than 4 different La Liga winners in 25 years, 4 in Italy, France is a little more open but still only about 5. Iím pretty sure that in Portugal, only the big 3 have won more than 1 league title.

If anything, the US system feels pretty unique. And I must be honest, I love it.


 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 03 Nov 21 10.59am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

The top clubs in the NFL etc do not compete against the top teams in other countries in financially lucrative competitions.

The NFL etc was manufactured all at once and did not grow organically, although you could argue the original top 4-6 had richer owners many decades ago.

What really annoys most fans or older fans is thereís little opportunity for clever transfers and management to win even a cup now, let alone the league. If you do start to show it the team gets picked apart and the manager offered obscene money to leave more than ever before.

I have very little interest in the top of the premier league. What has become interesting is how big clubs like Arsenal are getting shoved out of the way, although you could argue the terrible ownership in football terms and long term stewardship is a big factor too. Newcastle will eventually get there and so might Everton one day, one of the original big 6. Actually they were more successful than Man U so they were more like the top 4 or top 2.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (03 Nov 2021 11.02am)

 


COYP

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 03 Nov 21 2.07pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend


so long as audience figures for the Prem are massive ( and they are )...the money will continue to flow.

many other European leagues consist of a few big fish in a small pond. And a bunch of minnows to be their punchbag every Saturday.

I reckon the measure of any league is 'how good are the teams at the bottom of the league'. And by this measure the Prem trounces everybody else.

As Man City found out last weekend, there are no easy games in the Prem. When Real Madrid hosts Celta Vigo ? maybe an easy 3 points.

 


Pay for a BBC TV license ? yeah, right.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 03 Nov 21 2.14pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend


Another factor is that merchandising revenue in the N.F.L. is shared equally between the teams, except possibly the Dallas Cowboys who I think are outside the agreement, because itís all marketed by the N.F.L.
The salary cap is also there to stop one club becoming too dominant by signing all the big names.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 03 Nov 21 2.17pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

The battle for fairness was lost when the PL was formed cutting adrift the rest of the FL.

At the time various pundits predicted this was just the start and so it appears. There have been various attempts by the big 6 to reduce the size of the PL and to create a European Super League. As part of the carrot they have tried to create a PL2 made up of the big clubs outside of the PL.

Sadly it is only a matter of time before one of these initiatives succeeds. Billionaires do not buy clubs to play fair.

The only hope we have is for the government to step in and disband the FA and form a new body which has legal power over all professional football clubs. I doubt this will happen as the PL clubs have deep pockets and will fight this in the courts for years.

In short it's too much trouble for politicians to do anything about.

 


One more point

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 03 Nov 21 4.46pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend


The English Championship is a better league than most of Europe.

Lots of goals, passionate fans, players who are all pretty good, big clubs with a good financial support base. Unpredictable games....even when top clubs play the bottom clubs.


many big european clubs can only dream of the weekly ticket revenues of the English Championship....Staeua Bucharest, dynamo zagreb, Lech Posnan, ..... European giants that charge just a few quid to see a game.

West Brom, Sunderland, Bristol.....a ton of money every Saturday.

 


Pay for a BBC TV license ? yeah, right.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View oldyank's Profile oldyank Flag Reston 06 Nov 21 9.57pm Send a Private Message to oldyank Add oldyank as a friend

One thing I forgot o mention was what happens when a club goes bankrupt and goes into receivership. I believe this happened to Palace perhaps 10 years ago. The penalty is a 10 point deduction. This makes no sense. It's not the players, manager or staffs fault. All this does is set the team up for relegation. If I remember Palace survived that year. If a professional team in the States goes bankrupt the league takes over until a buyer can be found which turns out to be fairly easy. Can someone explain the PL's policy to me.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View the.universal's Profile the.universal Online 06 Nov 21 10.24pm Send a Private Message to the.universal Add the.universal as a friend

Originally posted by oldyank

One thing I forgot o mention was what happens when a club goes bankrupt and goes into receivership. I believe this happened to Palace perhaps 10 years ago. The penalty is a 10 point deduction. This makes no sense. It's not the players, manager or staffs fault. All this does is set the team up for relegation. If I remember Palace survived that year. If a professional team in the States goes bankrupt the league takes over until a buyer can be found which turns out to be fairly easy. Can someone explain the PL's policy to me.

Before they changed that rule a few clubs had used insolvency to effectively start again. Incoming buyers would work with existing owners to call administration, write off debts at 10p in the pound, then pump a load of new money in

There wasnít really much of a deterrent to doing that.

 


Vive le Roy!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 


Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > Football Talk > Premier League Economics