You are here: Home > Message Board > Football Talk > Penalties "A Lottery"
April 19 2024 10.15am

Penalties "A Lottery"

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 1 of 2 1 2 > Last >>

 

View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 19 May 22 8.43am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

I watched BBC Breakfast this morning for about 4 minutes (yes I know; sorry) and heard 3 different people say that penalty shootouts were "a lottery" (as yet another cup final fails to produce a winner after extra time).

Perhaps a big pedantry alert is required here, but it really annoys me when this is said, yet it's one of those phrases that has become 'implied knowledge'. A shootout is a test of sporting ability just like any other.

Taking the example of last night, one team drilled their five penalties home without a stutter, whereas the other team didn't. The one player who missed ran up to the ball with a complete absence of conviction before duly scuffing a weak shot straight at the keeper. Why was that "a lottery"; it was one team performing better than the other team.

'Lottery' is the wrong word in any case. A lottery requires multiple entrants and minimal numbers of winners. A shootout is one v one.

Edited by YT (19 May 2022 8.45am)

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View HeathMan's Profile HeathMan Flag Purley 19 May 22 8.51am Send a Private Message to HeathMan Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add HeathMan as a friend

Agree

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 19 May 22 9.08am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by YT

I watched BBC Breakfast this morning for about 4 minutes (yes I know; sorry) and heard 3 different people say that penalty shootouts were "a lottery" (as yet another cup final fails to produce a winner after extra time).

Perhaps a big pedantry alert is required here, but it really annoys me when this is said, yet it's one of those phrases that has become 'implied knowledge'. A shootout is a test of sporting ability just like any other.

Taking the example of last night, one team drilled their five penalties home without a stutter, whereas the other team didn't. The one player who missed ran up to the ball with a complete absence of conviction before duly scuffing a weak shot straight at the keeper. Why was that "a lottery"; it was one team performing better than the other team.

'Lottery' is the wrong word in any case. A lottery requires multiple entrants and minimal numbers of winners. A shootout is one v one.

Edited by YT (19 May 2022 8.45am)

Yep!

I would be inclined to suggest that this saying is based upon the
assumption that every professional footballer is expected to score a penalty which is clearly not the case.

It would be my personal expectation of them to do so however it ignores several variables:

1. The quality of GKs these days?
2. The ability of a player to handle the pressure mentally?
3. How physically and mentally prepared a player is after often 120mins?
4. Of course the actual ability to strike a ball with conviction?

I actually find it shocking how often players are both treated and act as though taking a pen in a shootout was a completely unforeseeable circumstance. I think it is more mental than technical but even at that juncture the onus should surely be on a manager to identify those best placed to take one considering the factors.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View MrRobbo's Profile MrRobbo Flag Purley 19 May 22 9.20am Send a Private Message to MrRobbo Add MrRobbo as a friend


Yep, lottery is really undervaluing the mental and technical abilities on display.

And to put your pen away you need to have both elements locked.

The keepers sniff out indecision a mile away. and are good enough to get to most pens if not perfectly struck.

I'll always remember an interview with Shearer about pens. His POV was that if he executed his pen properly (top corner) no keeper would get it. So instead of letting indecision creep in, he always went there. Then the only thing he had to nail was hitting the spot, and not worry about what way he thought the keeper might dive.


 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View mezzer's Profile mezzer Flag Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 19 May 22 9.30am Send a Private Message to mezzer Add mezzer as a friend

It'll be nice to have at least half of Scotland not now revelling in us losing to Germany in penalty shoot outs. People in glass houses and all that.....

 


Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 19 May 22 9.43am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by mezzer

It'll be nice to have at least half of Scotland not now revelling in us losing to Germany in penalty shoot outs. People in glass houses and all that.....

Or to Italy. Or indeed Portugal. In fact England last lost a shootout to Germany (their 2nd such loss) 26 years ago. Since then, they've lost 2 to Italy and 2 to Portugal.

Edited by YT (19 May 2022 10.12am)

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View eaglesdare's Profile eaglesdare Flag 19 May 22 10.28am Send a Private Message to eaglesdare Add eaglesdare as a friend

the minute I seen Ramsey in the shootout I knew he didint look confident! as someone has said keepers can sniff someone who is not confident!
More often than not the unconfident person will go down the middle and keep the penalty on target!

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View mezzer's Profile mezzer Flag Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 19 May 22 10.59am Send a Private Message to mezzer Add mezzer as a friend

Originally posted by YT

Or to Italy. Or indeed Portugal. In fact England last lost a shootout to Germany (their 2nd such loss) 26 years ago. Since then, they've lost 2 to Italy and 2 to Portugal.

Edited by YT (19 May 2022 10.12am)

Which is the real reason people voted Leave

 


Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View A89M's Profile A89M Flag Streatham 19 May 22 11.51am Send a Private Message to A89M Add A89M as a friend

Originally posted by MrRobbo


Yep, lottery is really undervaluing the mental and technical abilities on display.

And to put your pen away you need to have both elements locked.

The keepers sniff out indecision a mile away. and are good enough to get to most pens if not perfectly struck.

I'll always remember an interview with Shearer about pens. His POV was that if he executed his pen properly (top corner) no keeper would get it. So instead of letting indecision creep in, he always went there. Then the only thing he had to nail was hitting the spot, and not worry about what way he thought the keeper might dive.


Exactly. Kane seems to have followed suit with this - One of the best I've seen at hitting side netting consistently, I bet he practices these every week, if not daily. 'Lottery' is just an excuse for the team who loses.

Another one that annoys me is - 'You cannot replicate the atmosphere' and whilst this is true, you can practice your technique over and over again until it becomes natural. Small margins make the difference in these tense situations.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 19 May 22 12.32pm Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by A89M

Exactly. Kane seems to have followed suit with this - One of the best I've seen at hitting side netting consistently, I bet he practices these every week, if not daily. 'Lottery' is just an excuse for the team who loses.

Another one that annoys me is - 'You cannot replicate the atmosphere' and whilst this is true, you can practice your technique over and over again until it becomes natural. Small margins make the difference in these tense situations.

Quite, and true of any and every sport.

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 19 May 22 12.36pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

I agree generally.
I think the term Lottery is born out of the fact that the Keeper basically guesses as To where your gonna shoot. if he guesses right, he saves the penalty. (bit simplistic I know)

A Penalty is a different skill to the rest of the game, it's about nerve, clarity of thought and technique. A perfect pen is almost impossible to Save. The onus is on the attacker to score; the keeper is not expected to Save anything.

I'm not convinced that penalties are a just way to end a tournament, but I haven't got a better solution than Penalties.

I quite like the idea that Extra time should begin with a loss of a player on each side, then every 5 mins each team loses another player until someone scores.

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 19 May 22 12.40pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

I agree generally.
I think the term Lottery is born out of the fact that the Keeper basically guesses as To where your gonna shoot. if he guesses right, he saves the penalty. (bit simplistic I know)

A Penalty is a different skill to the rest of the game, it's about nerve, clarity of thought and technique. A perfect pen is almost impossible to Save. The onus is on the attacker to score; the keeper is not expected to Save anything.

I'm not convinced that penalties are a just way to end a tournament, but I haven't got a better solution than Penalties.

I quite like the idea that Extra time should begin with a loss of a player on each side, then every 5 mins each team loses another player until someone scores.

But you could end up with just Calvin Andrew on one team and Wayne Andrews on the other, in which case the duration of the match would span seasons let alone hours.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 1 of 2 1 2 > Last >>

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > Football Talk > Penalties "A Lottery"