Do people need to

Do people need to " graft harder "

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HKOwen Hong Kong 17 Aug 22 7.25am
Some are already working very hard, some not. When I was back recently I travelled a lot by train. I used most of the London hub stations, all staff now have a different coloured bib de[ending on which rail company they work for. It was very noticeable at the bigger stations there were always groups of 5/6 staff just in a group chatting and checking their phones on the concourse. At the smaller stations the staff seemed to be busier. I went to Sports Direct in Westfield at White City, trying to get the idol staff to serve you was difficult, mostly just chatting to each other and checking their phones. The poor store manager was unable to do anything. There is certainly much room for improvement in the work ethic. Some people have an expectation of having a relatively easy life without working hard. There is always room for improvement in anything. I think Truss will suffer from the release of her comment from 2019. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 17 Aug 22 7.25am

Some are already working very hard, some not.
When I was back recently I travelled a lot by train. I used most of the London hub stations, all staff now have a different coloured bib de[ending on which rail company they work for. It was very noticeable at the bigger stations there were always groups of 5/6 staff just in a group chatting and checking their phones on the concourse. At the smaller stations the staff seemed to be busier.

I went to Sports Direct in Westfield at White City, trying to get the idol staff to serve you was difficult, mostly just chatting to each other and checking their phones. The poor store manager was unable to do anything.

There is certainly much room for improvement in the work ethic. Some people have an expectation of having a relatively easy life without working hard.

There is always room for improvement in anything.

I think Truss will suffer from the release of her comment from 2019.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Badger11 Beckenham 17 Aug 22 7.44am
I have visited 3 coffee shops / cafes recently the staff were all English (I think) were friendly and gave good service. The idea that the British can't do these jobs is nonsense. It is a fact that British workers are not as productive as our competitors but there are 2 possible explanations for that other than laziness. 1. The other countries lie about their stats or at the very least are not comparing like for like. 2. The more likely explanation is the shameful lack of investment in the UK in training and technology. For too long business relied on cheap EU labour rather than investment. My personal experience of working is that apart from Asia British workers are just as hard working as their European colleagues perhaps they are better at talking up what they do. The Germans would always give it large about how hard they worked and how efficient they were however you could never get anyone in the office after 4pm European time. They talked a good game. All of the above relates to the private sector I am not so sure about the public sector. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 17 Aug 22 7.44am

I have visited 3 coffee shops / cafes recently the staff were all English (I think) were friendly and gave good service. The idea that the British can't do these jobs is nonsense.

It is a fact that British workers are not as productive as our competitors but there are 2 possible explanations for that other than laziness.

1. The other countries lie about their stats or at the very least are not comparing like for like.

2. The more likely explanation is the shameful lack of investment in the UK in training and technology. For too long business relied on cheap EU labour rather than investment.

My personal experience of working is that apart from Asia British workers are just as hard working as their European colleagues perhaps they are better at talking up what they do. The Germans would always give it large about how hard they worked and how efficient they were however you could never get anyone in the office after 4pm European time. They talked a good game.

All of the above relates to the private sector I am not so sure about the public sector.

One more point

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kingdowieonthewall Sussex, ex-Cronx. 17 Aug 22 8.24am
my late father told me about his trip to the labour exchange office on becoming unemployed. After a brief chat regarding his work experience, qualifications etc he was given 3 cards, each was a different job. It was literally a case of pick 1, there was no dole option, as jobs were available. This is why a few generations ago there were park keepers, lavatory attendants, council / municipal trades, all keeping the local area tidy & well kept, no opt out skive option. Today many would consider those jobs far below them, but the workers then took a keen pride in their affairs. Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents? Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.
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kingdowieonthewall

Sussex, ex-Cronx. 17 Aug 22 8.24am

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my late father told me about his trip to the labour exchange office on becoming unemployed.
After a brief chat regarding his work experience, qualifications etc he was given 3 cards, each was a different job.
It was literally a case of pick 1, there was no dole option, as jobs were available.
This is why a few generations ago there were park keepers, lavatory attendants, council / municipal trades, all keeping the local area tidy & well kept, no opt out skive option.
Today many would consider those jobs far below them, but the workers then took a keen pride in their affairs.

Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents?
Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.

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georgenorman Online 17 Aug 22 8.43am
Yes, everyone should work hard.
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georgenorman Online

17 Aug 22 8.43am

Yes, everyone should work hard.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 17 Aug 22 9.22am
Have to add the outgoing PM could put in more of a shift Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 17 Aug 22 9.22am

Have to add the outgoing PM could put in more of a shift

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Aug 22 9.28am
Originally posted by Badger11 I have visited 3 coffee shops / cafes recently the staff were all English (I think) were friendly and gave good service. The idea that the British can't do these jobs is nonsense. It is a fact that British workers are not as productive as our competitors but there are 2 possible explanations for that other than laziness. 1. The other countries lie about their stats or at the very least are not comparing like for like. 2. The more likely explanation is the shameful lack of investment in the UK in training and technology. For too long business relied on cheap EU labour rather than investment. My personal experience of working is that apart from Asia British workers are just as hard working as their European colleagues perhaps they are better at talking up what they do. The Germans would always give it large about how hard they worked and how efficient they were however you could never get anyone in the office after 4pm European time. They talked a good game. All of the above relates to the private sector I am not so sure about the public sector. Having worked for 2 German companies and managed their British subsidiaries, my own experience suggests differently. The Germans did finish the day earlier, but they started much earlier, many of them at 7 am. They would then have a 30 min break at 8.30 for "second breakfast", during which informal meetings took place and the daily gossip was dispensed, negating the need to spend time during the working day doing so. Some German sales people I have known would work late into the evening with clients, then, with a colleague, drive during the night to another country, sharing the driving, napping as best they could, have a shave and a shirt change at a services, and see other clients the next day. Daft, I know, but they did it. There was a wholly different culture and expectation. Being late, or early, for anything, is a big no. It is more efficient. Whether it is better, depends on what you value most. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 17 Aug 22 9.28am

Originally posted by Badger11

I have visited 3 coffee shops / cafes recently the staff were all English (I think) were friendly and gave good service. The idea that the British can't do these jobs is nonsense.

It is a fact that British workers are not as productive as our competitors but there are 2 possible explanations for that other than laziness.

1. The other countries lie about their stats or at the very least are not comparing like for like.

2. The more likely explanation is the shameful lack of investment in the UK in training and technology. For too long business relied on cheap EU labour rather than investment.

My personal experience of working is that apart from Asia British workers are just as hard working as their European colleagues perhaps they are better at talking up what they do. The Germans would always give it large about how hard they worked and how efficient they were however you could never get anyone in the office after 4pm European time. They talked a good game.

All of the above relates to the private sector I am not so sure about the public sector.

Having worked for 2 German companies and managed their British subsidiaries, my own experience suggests differently. The Germans did finish the day earlier, but they started much earlier, many of them at 7 am. They would then have a 30 min break at 8.30 for "second breakfast", during which informal meetings took place and the daily gossip was dispensed, negating the need to spend time during the working day doing so. Some German sales people I have known would work late into the evening with clients, then, with a colleague, drive during the night to another country, sharing the driving, napping as best they could, have a shave and a shirt change at a services, and see other clients the next day. Daft, I know, but they did it. There was a wholly different culture and expectation. Being late, or early, for anything, is a big no. It is more efficient. Whether it is better, depends on what you value most.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Aug 22 9.36am
Originally posted by kingdowieonthewall my late father told me about his trip to the labour exchange office on becoming unemployed. After a brief chat regarding his work experience, qualifications etc he was given 3 cards, each was a different job. It was literally a case of pick 1, there was no dole option, as jobs were available. This is why a few generations ago there were park keepers, lavatory attendants, council / municipal trades, all keeping the local area tidy & well kept, no opt out skive option. Today many would consider those jobs far below them, but the workers then took a keen pride in their affairs. I have a lot of sympathy for this attitude. If there are jobs to be done, then the able unemployed should be expected to do those jobs. Getting used to not working is not a good habit to fall into. Making sure there is a benefit in doing so is just common sense. When people tell me that they don't have a job, I always respond that they do. They may not be currently employed, but the unemployed still have a job. Their job is to find employment, and they need to put as much daily effort into that as anyone with a job. Some coming through the door with that attitude always scored points with me when we had a vacancy. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 17 Aug 22 9.36am

Originally posted by kingdowieonthewall

I have a lot of sympathy for this attitude. If there are jobs to be done, then the able unemployed should be expected to do those jobs. Getting used to not working is not a good habit to fall into. Making sure there is a benefit in doing so is just common sense.

When people tell me that they don't have a job, I always respond that they do. They may not be currently employed, but the unemployed still have a job. Their job is to find employment, and they need to put as much daily effort into that as anyone with a job. Some coming through the door with that attitude always scored points with me when we had a vacancy.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 17 Aug 22 9.45am
Originally posted by Badger11 I have visited 3 coffee shops / cafes recently the staff were all English (I think) were friendly and gave good service. The idea that the British can't do these jobs is nonsense. It is a fact that British workers are not as productive as our competitors but there are 2 possible explanations for that other than laziness. 1. The other countries lie about their stats or at the very least are not comparing like for like. 2. The more likely explanation is the shameful lack of investment in the UK in training and technology. For too long business relied on cheap EU labour rather than investment. My personal experience of working is that apart from Asia British workers are just as hard working as their European colleagues perhaps they are better at talking up what they do. The Germans would always give it large about how hard they worked and how efficient they were however you could never get anyone in the office after 4pm European time. They talked a good game. All of the above relates to the private sector I am not so sure about the public sector. Many people in North Asia, particularly Hong Kong, S. Korea and Japan seem to work long office hours but it is not generally because they are being productive. In Hong Kong the reason is usually people are studying or doing their own activity in an environment that is more comfortable and quieter than where they live, also the light and aircon are free, as is the printer/photocopier. Difficult to do at home if you share a tiny flat with a few other people. That's also why work from home never popular here. In Japan and S.Korea there is still a prevailing sense that a junior does not leave before his boss unless he has been told he can. In Singapore, and Australia, you can almost hear the doors closing as the office staff get out on the dot. There are always exceptions everywhere but this has been my general observation in these countries. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 17 Aug 22 9.45am

Originally posted by Badger11

I have visited 3 coffee shops / cafes recently the staff were all English (I think) were friendly and gave good service. The idea that the British can't do these jobs is nonsense.

It is a fact that British workers are not as productive as our competitors but there are 2 possible explanations for that other than laziness.

1. The other countries lie about their stats or at the very least are not comparing like for like.

2. The more likely explanation is the shameful lack of investment in the UK in training and technology. For too long business relied on cheap EU labour rather than investment.

All of the above relates to the private sector I am not so sure about the public sector.

Many people in North Asia, particularly Hong Kong, S. Korea and Japan seem to work long office hours but it is not generally because they are being productive.

In Hong Kong the reason is usually people are studying or doing their own activity in an environment that is more comfortable and quieter than where they live, also the light and aircon are free, as is the printer/photocopier. Difficult to do at home if you share a tiny flat with a few other people. That's also why work from home never popular here.

In Japan and S.Korea there is still a prevailing sense that a junior does not leave before his boss unless he has been told he can.

In Singapore, and Australia, you can almost hear the doors closing as the office staff get out on the dot.

There are always exceptions everywhere but this has been my general observation in these countries.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 Aug 22 10.00am
Originally posted by kingdowieonthewall my late father told me about his trip to the labour exchange office on becoming unemployed. After a brief chat regarding his work experience, qualifications etc he was given 3 cards, each was a different job. It was literally a case of pick 1, there was no dole option, as jobs were available. This is why a few generations ago there were park keepers, lavatory attendants, council / municipal trades, all keeping the local area tidy & well kept, no opt out skive option. Today many would consider those jobs far below them, but the workers then took a keen pride in their affairs. I enjoyed reading that. I have been under the impression for a while that the newer generation's heads are so filled with dreams of supercars and Villas in idyllic locations that many of the jobs they do (if they do) have always seem to exist as a sort of 'stop gap' between them achieving that which should be painted as a fantasy and not a reality. This is why the expectation of getting a good service anywhere these days is as much a fantasy as anything presented as normal on Instagram, Tik-Tok or YouTube. A combination of even the dimmest being given University places, a plethora of media to distort your reality/expectations in life and an ever growing 'middle-class' of parents providing comfortable lives for the youth are damaging (not completely destroying) work ethic. Like anything, this will balance out. There may well come a day when a top salary is given to toilet cleaners as too many decide that job is not fitting for them or when being a reality TV star pays minimum wage as everybody wants to do that. Supply and Demand. Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times - rinse and repeat. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 Aug 22 10.00am

Originally posted by kingdowieonthewall

I enjoyed reading that.

I have been under the impression for a while that the newer generation's heads are so filled with dreams of supercars and Villas in idyllic locations that many of the jobs they do (if they do) have always seem to exist as a sort of 'stop gap' between them achieving that which should be painted as a fantasy and not a reality. This is why the expectation of getting a good service anywhere these days is as much a fantasy as anything presented as normal on Instagram, Tik-Tok or YouTube.

A combination of even the dimmest being given University places, a plethora of media to distort your reality/expectations in life and an ever growing 'middle-class' of parents providing comfortable lives for the youth are damaging (not completely destroying) work ethic.

Like anything, this will balance out. There may well come a day when a top salary is given to toilet cleaners as too many decide that job is not fitting for them or when being a reality TV star pays minimum wage as everybody wants to do that. Supply and Demand.

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times - rinse and repeat.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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HKOwen Hong Kong 17 Aug 22 10.08am
Originally posted by Nicholas91 I enjoyed reading that. I have been under the impression for a while that the newer generation's heads are so filled with dreams of supercars and Villas in idyllic locations that many of the jobs they do (if they do) have always seem to exist as a sort of 'stop gap' between them achieving that which should be painted as a fantasy and not a reality. This is why the expectation of getting a good service anywhere these days is as much a fantasy as anything presented as normal on Instagram, Tik-Tok or YouTube. A combination of even the dimmest being given University places, a plethora of media to distort your reality/expectations in life and an ever growing 'middle-class' of parents providing comfortable lives for the youth are damaging (not completely destroying) work ethic. Like anything, this will balance out. There may well come a day when a top salary is given to toilet cleaners as too many decide that job is not fitting for them or when being a reality TV star pays minimum wage as everybody wants to do that. Supply and Demand. Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times - rinse and repeat. and I enjoyed reading yours sir Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 17 Aug 22 10.08am

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I enjoyed reading that.

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times - rinse and repeat.

and I enjoyed reading yours sir

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Palace Old Geezer Online Midhurst 17 Aug 22 10.43am
Some good posts on here and it seems most believe that more folk are work shy these days. My wife and I, now retired, often comment on the large number of people wandering around shops or on the beach during the week. Years ago, apart from holiday periods, these places were much quieter. Staff in so called service industries or retailing businesses, aside from being few and far between, are frequently unfriendly, unhelpful and untrained. In Curry's recently I had to interrupt two blokes having a personal conversation so as to get some help. Turned out that I knew more about the product in question than the assistant who reluctantly spoke to me. There also appears to be more people going on strike - don't they realise how counter productive that is. I read recently that in Japan, if railway staff want to protest about conditions, they simply refuse to take money from passengers, but still maintain an efficient, punctual service. I bet that gets management attention. In reply to the OP - yes they do! Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.
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Palace Old Geezer Online

Midhurst 17 Aug 22 10.43am

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Some good posts on here and it seems most believe that more folk are work shy these days. My wife and I, now retired, often comment on the large number of people wandering around shops or on the beach during the week. Years ago, apart from holiday periods, these places were much quieter.

Staff in so called service industries or retailing businesses, aside from being few and far between, are frequently unfriendly, unhelpful and untrained. In Curry's recently I had to interrupt two blokes having a personal conversation so as to get some help. Turned out that I knew more about the product in question than the assistant who reluctantly spoke to me.

There also appears to be more people going on strike - don't they realise how counter productive that is. I read recently that in Japan, if railway staff want to protest about conditions, they simply refuse to take money from passengers, but still maintain an efficient, punctual service. I bet that gets management attention.

In reply to the OP - yes they do!

Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Aug 22 11.22am
Are people in general rewarded for working hard/ harder? No, not unless you work for yourself, or have good commission or bonuses. There nearly always isn't - explains your 'poor service'. Is someone on minimum wage supposed to care? Work for a lot of people, particularly young people, can be summed up as, "Work every day, still can't afford a house/ rent". Cop on lads - 'grafting' gets you an early grave - that's about it. These are not the days you can buy a house with one wage, probably not two - you all know that. Where I will agree is that there's no room for the dole where there are jobs. Everyone should be working unless physically/ mentally incapable. There's no excuse - everywhere is looking for staff. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Aug 22 11.22am

Are people in general rewarded for working hard/ harder? No, not unless you work for yourself, or have good commission or bonuses. There nearly always isn't - explains your 'poor service'. Is someone on minimum wage supposed to care?
Work for a lot of people, particularly young people, can be summed up as, "Work every day, still can't afford a house/ rent".
Cop on lads - 'grafting' gets you an early grave - that's about it. These are not the days you can buy a house with one wage, probably not two - you all know that.

Where I will agree is that there's no room for the dole where there are jobs. Everyone should be working unless physically/ mentally incapable. There's no excuse - everywhere is looking for staff.

Red and Blue Army!

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