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December 7 2022 12.43am

Opportunity

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 26 Oct 22 6.20am Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

I think this topic transcends just football and is tied up with what so many on these pages despise as 'Woke' nonsense.

It is the opinion expressed by our own Patrick Viera over the opportunities, or lack of them, afforded to black people when it comes to football management and the upper echelons of the football hierarchy.

Do people on here think there's anything to it, or is just more of the 'woke' claptrap I keep reading about?.

'If you're good enough, people will use you', I am expecting to see, followed by 'stop whingeing.'

Am I wrong?

 

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View Dubai Eagle's Profile Dubai Eagle Flag 26 Oct 22 7.03am Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

There is another thread on this so probably they will be merged later today - but just my tuppence -
I am a strong believer in if your good enough people will use you / opportunities will present themselves -
That said I am not a person of colour ( or whatever the current correct terminology is)so its easy for me to talk from the outside I haven't lived it -
At least 2 other considerations (no doubt there are plenty of others) When people like Steve G / Fat Frank (who have had illustrious playing careers) rock up for their first managerial positions in quite high profile clubs, its probably easy to become a bit despondent and say, well it would never have happened if they were black - I would suggest that when that kind of thing happens its more of a special case rather than the norm - in almost every walk of life you have to pay your dues, you start lower down the ladder ( often your just grateful for that initial opportunity) & you work your way up -
Secondly - if your a high profile footballer, you have gone from a glamorous position (loads a money, etc) where having made it in the game I would imagine there is a tendency to expect to continue that career at a high level off the field, however it needs to be understood that playing, coaching, assistant managing & managing are 4 completely different jobs which whilst they all centre around football they all have their compartmentalised specialities & progress needs to be earnt, in short you have to pay your dues -

Certainly in the stories that I have seen in the papers seem to revolve around those that finish playing & expect to be handed a managerial position just on the basis of the fact that they played for a top 6 team with or without international duty included -

I dont think anyone can say that there arent enough coaching / managerial vacancies that present themselves ( given how many clubs there are in the UK/ Europe)

 

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View Dubai Eagle's Profile Dubai Eagle Flag 26 Oct 22 7.09am Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

As an example - Look at Julian S -Just finished his playing career, gone away done his first round of badges, joined the academy lower down the ladder & walked in the door with a smile on his face ready to go to work, surely that's the model that should be used as an example ?

Or am I looking at it wrongly ?

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 26 Oct 22 7.41am Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Yeah, DE, I thought there might be a thread about this but, after a quick search, I couldn't find one so please merge, someone, by all means.

Thanks for the input, DE.

I would be interested to know what the ethnic numbers are when it comes to doing the coaching badges. This is a subject that needs a good deal of research, I feel, before coming up with any conclusions, wouldn't you agree?

Edited by Glazier#1 (26 Oct 2022 7.41am)

 

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View Dubai Eagle's Profile Dubai Eagle Flag 26 Oct 22 8.00am Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

Absolutely - Just throwing this out there - if young footballers come from disadvantaged upbringings where sport is the only way out of a poor existence, perhaps one of the issues is that they haven't received enough basic education to feel able to tackle coaching badges where at least some of the curricular will involve elements of reading & writing ?

I have seen snippets where our modern day academy are said to include school style studies to help the youngsters but if today we are talking about men of managerial age who went through the football playing pyramid starting some 30 / 40 odd years ago, perhaps that educational focus wasn't in place at clubs then ?

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 26 Oct 22 8.09am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

For Lampard, Rooney and Gerrard there is also PV.

Of course if you are a big name footballer that is an advantage but you have to want to be a manager as well.

As I said on the other thread footballers who want to move into management need to do their badges and start pestering their club to do coaching with the juniors to get experience. They may also need to plan their final playing move so it is not about money but a coaching opportunity.

The problem at the moment with black managers is not enough of them have the coaching badges if they want to be managers do the bloody training courses.

Edited by Badger11 (26 Oct 2022 8.10am)

 


One more point

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 26 Oct 22 8.26am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

I think this topic transcends just football and is tied up with what so many on these pages despise as 'Woke' nonsense.

It is the opinion expressed by our own Patrick Viera over the opportunities, or lack of them, afforded to black people when it comes to football management and the upper echelons of the football hierarchy.

Do people on here think there's anything to it, or is just more of the 'woke' claptrap I keep reading about?.

'If you're good enough, people will use you', I am expecting to see, followed by 'stop whingeing.'

Am I wrong?

I am inclined to believe there may very well be obstacles for 'Black' individuals seeking to become managers, it is not an unreasonable proposal, for me however it is how it is presented that interests/concerns me.

There may be a variety of reasons we do not see so many, whether that be cultural barriers, lack of role models, mentality or anything else. What I do object to is when the narrative reads as something akin to 'It's white people and racism that is stopping this' which for me is aligned to the opposite pole of 'Black players/coaches are [so on and so forth]'. Headlines that read 'Doors are not open (BBC)' for me have already demonstrated the narrative being applied in that somehow it is a racist conspiracy to blame for the lack of black managers. That turns me off immediately as I class it in the same bracket as 'woke nonsense' and it infuriates me on many levels including the racial 'blame game' and also the distraction from what may well be a worthy cause (looking at how we can encourage, support etc. more black individuals to succeed).

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 26 Oct 22 8.26am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Mods please merge with thread called Black Managers. Thanks

 


One more point

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 26 Oct 22 8.30am Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

Management is a precarious job. You rarely have long tenure anywhere as you are only as good as your last couple of results.

Do ex players make great managers? Sometimes, but as the 'golden generation,' of players like Scholes, Beckham , Rooney, Lampard,Gerrard they have had at best had mixed results.

If their is an advantage, then perhaps it is that they get given a second chance. Lampard lost his job at Chelsea and got the Everton job. I suspect Gerrard will get another top job.

But in general maybe the issue is around management itself. They tend to have a very short shelf life. But I do think things are changing and PV and Palace are representative of that.

Ia I am not sure Speroni is a good example of anything as Parish has promoted a culture of being apart of the club identity and Speroni is part of that, part of our club DNA.

And of course they do say keepers never make good managers!

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 26 Oct 22 10.20am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

There is no data on how many black footballers aspire to be managers in the UK. How many do their coaching badges etc.

Sol Campbell is very vocal, may be he is just now very good.

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 26 Oct 22 11.01am Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Mods please merge with thread called Black Managers. Thanks

Yup.

Sorry all.

 

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View samprior's Profile samprior Flag Hamburg 26 Oct 22 1.00pm Send a Private Message to samprior Add samprior as a friend

Originally posted by Dubai Eagle

As an example - Look at Julian S -Just finished his playing career, gone away done his first round of badges, joined the academy lower down the ladder & walked in the door with a smile on his face ready to go to work, surely that's the model that should be used as an example ?

Or am I looking at it wrongly ?

Or Darren Powell or Paddy McCarthy.

 

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