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March 30 2023 10.10am

Parish and the directors

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View smaz's Profile smaz Flag 16 Mar 23 12.12am Send a Private Message to smaz Add smaz as a friend

With all the talk about PV letís not overlook the role of our chairman. PV was bought in to play a certain style of football including wingbacks a Gallagher style midfielder and a striker than can score! Heís been let down on all counts.

In fact there has been serious lack of long term investment sine the end of last season. January was a missed opportunity and itís not as if Parish wasnít aware given the links with AWB/ Gallagher ( again) and apparently trying to flog Mateta.

I get that Parish himself has no Money of his own to spend and has no obligation to anyway. But that leads to a discussion about his relationship with Textor ( who seems to be the only other shareholder willing to spend). By all accounts that relationship appears strained over Parish holding up Textor acquisition of Lyon.

If I was Textor I would be upset about Parish blocking the acquisition in circumstances where he and not Parish bankrolled our spending last summer. Nobody really knows the situation at board level but the lack of planning in January suggests all is not well and possibly why Textor didnít put up more money for signings.

But of course all of this is speculation as we we just donít know why we didnít reinforce in January and wether thier is a plan to do so this summer with Wilf going and others likely to follow.

Parish saved us a decade ago and took us up and kept us up for a decade and thatís an amazing achievement. The academy also is a legacy.

But the EPL is cruel. If you donít invest you stagnate and once that sets in itís hard to shake off as PV is discovering.

 

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View Dubai Eagle's Profile Dubai Eagle Flag 16 Mar 23 6.25am Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

Obviously we dont really know whether the lack of transfer activity in Jan was a lack of planning (didnt find anyone to buy) or a reluctance to spend but as you say in the end it dosent really matter because the outcome is basically the same -

As I have said on another post (similar theme) I think the Shareholders at the time of the WC fully believed that we will survive until the end of the season (avoiding relegation) & then during the summer there will be some kind of Shareholders musical chairs & probably SP will be the one without a chair (as he is minority shareholder)

Obviously that looks a bit of a gamble at the moment but hopefully after the Arsenal game we will start to pick up points again & we will finish a couple of places above the relegation zone -

 

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View Elpis's Profile Elpis Flag In a pub 16 Mar 23 6.43am Send a Private Message to Elpis Add Elpis as a friend

Well the thread title should be changed to Parish and the investors because that is what they are .
I see little input in regard of directing , I havent even seen any of the Yanks at our matches let alone say anything regarding the club .

So investors they are ,they put money in and take money out . I hope Parish told them their investment can go up or down and didnt guarentee a return

Never been happy with the set up and with the sharholding swinging toward (if its not already there yet) the Yanks ,Parish could be outed at any time which creates uncertainty throughout the club .

 

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View PJEagle's Profile PJEagle Flag London 16 Mar 23 6.52am Send a Private Message to PJEagle Add PJEagle as a friend

Limping along til the end of the season wasn't what most of us had in mind after a positive season last year, but that's what we're going to get

 

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 16 Mar 23 7.16am Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

Who makes the key decision as to whether Viera is replaced?
Although Parish is in general terms in charge of day to day matters certain key decisions, e.g expenditure above a certain amount , have to be agreed between the major investors.
Iím wondering if changing the manager is one of those key decisions.
Parishís shareholding is supposedly diluted to around 18% now and I canít believe that the other majority investors will leave it to Parish in isolation to decide who manages the team when it has such a critical bearing on their investment if the club is relegated.
The overall executive structure of the club has always seemed opaque, in particular since Textor has become involved.
If, for example, Textor and the two other longer standing American investors want Viera out as they fear the consequences of relegation with our spiralling form, but Parish thinks we should stick with him, what happens?
Is it a majority decision, one where there has to be consensus, or a decision reserved to Parish in his executive role.
I would be surprised if it was the latter with so much money at stake.

 

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View Elpis's Profile Elpis Flag In a pub 16 Mar 23 9.02am Send a Private Message to Elpis Add Elpis as a friend

Originally posted by PatrickA

Who makes the key decision as to whether Viera is replaced?
Although Parish is in general terms in charge of day to day matters certain key decisions, e.g expenditure above a certain amount , have to be agreed between the major investors.
Iím wondering if changing the manager is one of those key decisions.
Parishís shareholding is supposedly diluted to around 18% now and I canít believe that the other majority investors will leave it to Parish in isolation to decide who manages the team when it has such a critical bearing on their investment if the club is relegated.
The overall executive structure of the club has always seemed opaque, in particular since Textor has become involved.
If, for example, Textor and the two other longer standing American investors want Viera out as they fear the consequences of relegation with our spiralling form, but Parish thinks we should stick with him, what happens?
Is it a majority decision, one where there has to be consensus, or a decision reserved to Parish in his executive role.
I would be surprised if it was the latter with so much money at stake.


Indeed Patrick it what I was alluding to , there is no clear command structure (maybe there is) thats visible to the fan base , no clear message of direction ,whats the plan ect and that starts at the top .

And the top is invisible ,Parish now a minor shareholder (thanks for the update) can't have as much influence as he did and is Chairman in name only , the real power lies across the pond and I don't like it .

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 16 Mar 23 9.30am Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Elpis


Indeed Patrick it what I was alluding to , there is no clear command structure (maybe there is) thats visible to the fan base , no clear message of direction ,whats the plan ect and that starts at the top .

And the top is invisible ,Parish now a minor shareholder (thanks for the update) can't have as much influence as he did and is Chairman in name only , the real power lies across the pond and I don't like it .

Let's not forget that this isn't the first time Parish has been part-owner rather than full. His initial takeover was as part of a consortium, and things went just fine under that arrangement. It would also have given him experience of running the club as a part owner, what the practical implications are, how to manage the other owners etc. He'd have made the deals with the Americans with that experience in mind no doubt.

Ultimately, you're probably right that the power rests abroad, but I wouldn't presume that to equate to a dislikable situation. Even if something like when to fire the manager becomes a drawn out, slightly messy committee decision, Parish sold to the Americans to address a far bigger picture, the stadium, academy and training ground development projects.

The running of a commercial organisation at board level is far from my area of expertise, but I'd imagine each model has its pros and cons. If one man is in sole charge then the line of responsibility is clear, but he doesn't have to listen to anyone else and has no checks and balances to his actions. I'm not sure that is inherently better than what we have.

 

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View fish mitten's Profile fish mitten Flag Chelmsford 16 Mar 23 9.30am Send a Private Message to fish mitten Add fish mitten as a friend

I could see a season of struggle after the summer transfer window, and then we failed to rectify all the problems in the winter one.

In the summer window we needed replacements for Gallagher, Kouyate Benteke and Kelly. We also needed to upgrade/replace McArthur, Luka, one of Ward/Clyne and get a second left back. For me we needed 5 or 6 players in who could come into the first team or be adequate replacements for the bench. What did we do? Get in one player who was first team ready, a couple of injury prone bench players (Richards and Johnstone) and some promising youngsters, who have been subsequently been loaned out.

In the winter window, we tried to strengthen the midfield but have brought in another youngster who seems not to be ready to start and a loan player, so we haven't fully addressed the issue.

This summer, should we stay up, we still have all of the above plus consider replacements for Ayew, Tomkins and Zaha. We have continually kicked the can down the road and it's now caught up with us. If we don't go down this year, we certainly will next if we think we can paper over the cracks again by buying one or two players who are first team material and another couple of promising youngsters.

For me, I suspect there is something not right at board room level, because if I and many other Palace fans could see the weakness in the squad, I sure as hell hope the board could. I can only think the hope was we could stay up and board room issues could be resolved next summer, with a fresh injection of cash to rebuild half a team. Either that or it's project reset and go down and start again.

Vieira may not be perfect, but every game I look at our bench and I look to think who can we bring on to change it, and its depressing. We have two of the worst forwards, two of the worst right backs, one out of form left back, one fit first team goalkeeper and not a lot of options in midfield. The squad is as imbalanced as it has ever been since we have been back in the Premier League. We have 5-6 very good players, though most of them are not back to the wall battlers either. Thankfully we haven't been injury ravaged.

Do we stick or twist? Either way I can't see how bringing a new manager in will change much, as the squad is woefully inadequate. Will we go down? Possible, but if we don't and we have another summer transfer window like the last one, we will be going down with an embarrassingly low level of points.

To me the fault is at board level. If we don't have the money then it is natural we won't be able to compete. It is the board's job to find ways that we can. FFP - we have to address that at a later stage. Anyone who thinks it's completely Vieira's fault is looking for a scapegoat that we can change now and as stated above I'm not sure anyone coming in will be able to do any better.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 16 Mar 23 9.49am Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by fish mitten

I could see a season of struggle after the summer transfer window, and then we failed to rectify all the problems in the winter one.

In the summer window we needed replacements for Gallagher, Kouyate Benteke and Kelly. We also needed to upgrade/replace McArthur, Luka, one of Ward/Clyne and get a second left back. For me we needed 5 or 6 players in who could come into the first team or be adequate replacements for the bench. What did we do? Get in one player who was first team ready, a couple of injury prone bench players (Richards and Johnstone) and some promising youngsters, who have been subsequently been loaned out.

In the winter window, we tried to strengthen the midfield but have brought in another youngster who seems not to be ready to start and a loan player, so we haven't fully addressed the issue.

This summer, should we stay up, we still have all of the above plus consider replacements for Ayew, Tomkins and Zaha. We have continually kicked the can down the road and it's now caught up with us. If we don't go down this year, we certainly will next if we think we can paper over the cracks again by buying one or two players who are first team material and another couple of promising youngsters.

For me, I suspect there is something not right at board room level, because if I and many other Palace fans could see the weakness in the squad, I sure as hell hope the board could. I can only think the hope was we could stay up and board room issues could be resolved next summer, with a fresh injection of cash to rebuild half a team. Either that or it's project reset and go down and start again.

Vieira may not be perfect, but every game I look at our bench and I look to think who can we bring on to change it, and its depressing. We have two of the worst forwards, two of the worst right backs, one out of form left back, one fit first team goalkeeper and not a lot of options in midfield. The squad is as imbalanced as it has ever been since we have been back in the Premier League. We have 5-6 very good players, though most of them are not back to the wall battlers either. Thankfully we haven't been injury ravaged.

Do we stick or twist? Either way I can't see how bringing a new manager in will change much, as the squad is woefully inadequate. Will we go down? Possible, but if we don't and we have another summer transfer window like the last one, we will be going down with an embarrassingly low level of points.

To me the fault is at board level. If we don't have the money then it is natural we won't be able to compete. It is the board's job to find ways that we can. FFP - we have to address that at a later stage. Anyone who thinks it's completely Vieira's fault is looking for a scapegoat that we can change now and as stated above I'm not sure anyone coming in will be able to do any better.

A well reasoned post.
Ultimately though, can Vieira, and the players in particular, say "I am giving 100%? Can Freedman say "I have sourced the best players with the correct ability and attitude with the funds available to me?"
I think there is ample scope for improvement within the boundaries of what is available. I remind folk of what Pulis achieved with a relatively mediocre squad.

 

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 16 Mar 23 9.56am Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

With Parish at the helm there seems to be some disjonted relations at the heart of the club. We will probably never know what that is but right now we seem to be a club in decline. We have not reinvented in the squad in the last few windows and now we have a team short on ability in key areas and low on confidence.

We have gambled it seems on not investing in players in favourof a shiny new stand which will look like a lovely white elephant in the Championship.

I had hoped for steady growth but we seem to have stood still and are now going backwards at a rate where it might take some time to recover.

We have some exciting young talent but that needs to be nurtured and helped through tough games by older leaders we lack them right now.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 16 Mar 23 10.00am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by fish mitten

I could see a season of struggle after the summer transfer window, and then we failed to rectify all the problems in the winter one.

In the summer window we needed replacements for Gallagher, Kouyate Benteke and Kelly. We also needed to upgrade/replace McArthur, Luka, one of Ward/Clyne and get a second left back. For me we needed 5 or 6 players in who could come into the first team or be adequate replacements for the bench. What did we do? Get in one player who was first team ready, a couple of injury prone bench players (Richards and Johnstone) and some promising youngsters, who have been subsequently been loaned out.

In the winter window, we tried to strengthen the midfield but have brought in another youngster who seems not to be ready to start and a loan player, so we haven't fully addressed the issue.

This summer, should we stay up, we still have all of the above plus consider replacements for Ayew, Tomkins and Zaha. We have continually kicked the can down the road and it's now caught up with us. If we don't go down this year, we certainly will next if we think we can paper over the cracks again by buying one or two players who are first team material and another couple of promising youngsters.

For me, I suspect there is something not right at board room level, because if I and many other Palace fans could see the weakness in the squad, I sure as hell hope the board could. I can only think the hope was we could stay up and board room issues could be resolved next summer, with a fresh injection of cash to rebuild half a team. Either that or it's project reset and go down and start again.

Vieira may not be perfect, but every game I look at our bench and I look to think who can we bring on to change it, and its depressing. We have two of the worst forwards, two of the worst right backs, one out of form left back, one fit first team goalkeeper and not a lot of options in midfield. The squad is as imbalanced as it has ever been since we have been back in the Premier League. We have 5-6 very good players, though most of them are not back to the wall battlers either. Thankfully we haven't been injury ravaged.

Do we stick or twist? Either way I can't see how bringing a new manager in will change much, as the squad is woefully inadequate. Will we go down? Possible, but if we don't and we have another summer transfer window like the last one, we will be going down with an embarrassingly low level of points.

To me the fault is at board level. If we don't have the money then it is natural we won't be able to compete. It is the board's job to find ways that we can. FFP - we have to address that at a later stage. Anyone who thinks it's completely Vieira's fault is looking for a scapegoat that we can change now and as stated above I'm not sure anyone coming in will be able to do any better.

I think that's a fair commentary.

Whether or not it is 'all PV's fault' is irrelevant at this stage however I would add though, my thinking is that it is very far from all his fault. The question for me is solely PL survival right now and I don't think PV has the capability to deliver that, mainly due to the fact an all time low for which he is the poster boy, first in the firing line and easiest replaced, right or not, needs to be reversed.

The 'investors' coming in, for me, always seemed a bit overhyped if not misconstrued as the prospect of impactful financial backing. They aren't in it for the glory, fun or what have you, they are literally just investing, with very little understanding of the game and what for me has now been confirmed as a financial venture as opposed to a sporting or personal one.

The paradigm therefore is correlating the playing side of things with the financial stance. There's no point us having someone in like PV if there is not going to be sincere investment into the team and that's being proved. We now have a very lightweight squad, where the quality isn't consistent enough even in the first team to see us really hopeful of anything but just staying in the PL, which we may well not do.

I'm reluctant to pin this all on Parish, even if it is bad strategy from him I still believe he was (one of) our saviour, has worked wonders and has the club's best interest at heart. Equally, I am reluctant to lob vitriol at PV with any real venom however that's very different to saying he's a square peg in a round hole atm.

You never know, my dream is we do pick up wins when we need them, go into the next PL season off the back of some sincere investment in the summer and brighter days ahead. That all seems very much fantasy to me now however and what I would much prefer is some reality and honesty about everything from what's happening on the pitch to what's happening with the business. I believe the term 'gaslighting' is being used a lot by youngsters these days and seems relevant. Getting overly angry/emotional about the football side of things is pointless and some clarity would help ease that. I fear we are going to see some real toxicity come to the fore soon however. I have even seen the emergence of some racist commentary by fans on social media etc. and that for me is so far removed from my club's identity.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View fish mitten's Profile fish mitten Flag Chelmsford 16 Mar 23 10.06am Send a Private Message to fish mitten Add fish mitten as a friend

So much has been made of Freedman and his canny eye for spotting talent. Of course he may have spotted many players that the board have not endorsed. You are fully right that it needs to be assessed at every level. Ultimately the Board should be questioning themselves and saying have we given everybody enough resources to do the job required? I don't think they can.

With Pulis, he did a remarkable job, though somehow I think he would struggle more with the current lot. Back then we had a full squad of mainly average players, but there was a backbone of battlers in the team. We now have a few much more gifted players, but there are positions where the quality we have now is poorer than back then.


Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

A well reasoned post.
Ultimately though, can Vieira, and the players in particular, say "I am giving 100%? Can Freedman say "I have sourced the best players with the correct ability and attitude with the funds available to me?"
I think there is ample scope for improvement within the boundaries of what is available. I remind folk of what Pulis achieved with a relatively mediocre squad.

 

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