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June 9 2023 8.55am

Sacked by Phone call ?

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View Painter's Profile Painter Flag Croydon 18 Mar 23 4.35pm Send a Private Message to Painter Add Painter as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

It sounds like absolute and utter incompetence from the board. If your key employee is openly thinking about another job and you'd be quite happy for him to take it then it doesn't take Einstein to work out that you want to be rid of him but you're too cheap and/or spineless to do the job or removing him yourself. Totally pathetic. And you wonder why we're in the position we're in? Fact one about any organisation: garbage at the top, garbage at the bottom.

Vieira actively avoided meeting Parish face to face for sometime, apparently it came to a head after the Villa game. He didnt go in the changing room or boardroom after the match, just left aftet TV interviews.
The rumours about goings on behind the scenes going back to last summer. It revolves around the Gallagher situation, Vieira was convinced he would sign for us and wasnt interested in anyone else, wanted to hold out for Gallagher right up to the deadline, we all know what happened.
Parish gets blamed for not supporting Vieira in the transfer market, its not his fault Vieira would only want players, that were unavailable.
Being over friendly with the players and not installing any discipline was also a criticism of Vieira, thats why people like Schlupp played whenever fit.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 18 Mar 23 4.53pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Painter

Vieira actively avoided meeting Parish face to face for sometime, apparently it came to a head after the Villa game. He didnt go in the changing room or boardroom after the match, just left aftet TV interviews.
The rumours about goings on behind the scenes going back to last summer. It revolves around the Gallagher situation, Vieira was convinced he would sign for us and wasnt interested in anyone else, wanted to hold out for Gallagher right up to the deadline, we all know what happened.
Parish gets blamed for not supporting Vieira in the transfer market, its not his fault Vieira would only want players, that were unavailable.
Being over friendly with the players and not installing any discipline was also a criticism of Vieira, thats why people like Schlupp played whenever fit.

Without any insight myself I donít find any of this hard to believe. There are a few reports claiming that Vieira would occasionally go AWOL too and the avoidance of confrontation was suggested.

Again, without really knowing at all, problems at the top with numerous key players, problems with PV and staff plus apparently a Ďbust upí between players, not to mention the relationships between these groups, does lead me to believe what we are seeing play out on the pitch is indicative of a lot of toxicity and problems from the top down.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View OldFella's Profile OldFella Flag London 18 Mar 23 6.42pm Send a Private Message to OldFella Add OldFella as a friend

Originally posted by Painter

Vieira actively avoided meeting Parish face to face for sometime, apparently it came to a head after the Villa game. He didnt go in the changing room or boardroom after the match, just left aftet TV interviews.
The rumours about goings on behind the scenes going back to last summer. It revolves around the Gallagher situation, Vieira was convinced he would sign for us and wasnt interested in anyone else, wanted to hold out for Gallagher right up to the deadline, we all know what happened.
Parish gets blamed for not supporting Vieira in the transfer market, its not his fault Vieira would only want players, that were unavailable.
Being over friendly with the players and not installing any discipline was also a criticism of Vieira, thats why people like Schlupp played whenever fit.

The above is entirely predictable drivel from the biggest brown noser and Parish apologist on these or any other boards. It's quite sickening, tbh.

 


Jackson.. Wan Bissaka.... Sansom.. Nicholas.. Cannon.. Guehi.... Zaha... Thomas.. Byrne... Holton.. Rogers.. that should do it..

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View dynamicdick's Profile dynamicdick Flag Dormansland 18 Mar 23 6.52pm Send a Private Message to dynamicdick Add dynamicdick as a friend

12 games without a win and lowest running stats in the PL and and a lot of other dire numbers. He was very lucky to last this long and as for how the sack was delivered is irrelevant!

 


Bring back Brolin

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 18 Mar 23 10.00pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Painter

Vieira actively avoided meeting Parish face to face for sometime, apparently it came to a head after the Villa game. He didnt go in the changing room or boardroom after the match, just left aftet TV interviews.
The rumours about goings on behind the scenes going back to last summer. It revolves around the Gallagher situation, Vieira was convinced he would sign for us and wasnt interested in anyone else, wanted to hold out for Gallagher right up to the deadline, we all know what happened.
Parish gets blamed for not supporting Vieira in the transfer market, its not his fault Vieira would only want players, that were unavailable.
Being over friendly with the players and not installing any discipline was also a criticism of Vieira, thats why people like Schlupp played whenever fit.

Painter - thanks for that (extremely informative) post. Obviously, it's part speculation but I find most of it entirely believable and if the truth always lies between the two stones, I'm sure at a minimum what you've said is a true reflection of the general landscape. What does seem 100% clear is that relations between Parish and Vieira had totally broken down, likely some time ago. And wherever the fault lay for that, no business can thrive when its two key employees have a fractured relationship. In reality, all this suggests Parish should have acted far sooner to make the change than he did (and I say that as an avid Vieira supporter). Anyway, it's posts like yours above that make HOL worthwhile.


Edited by sydtheeagle (18 Mar 2023 10.02pm)

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View radicalsteve's Profile radicalsteve Flag ottawa 19 Mar 23 11.52pm Send a Private Message to radicalsteve Add radicalsteve as a friend

This thread is quite illuminating and very believable. I wrote a post in early 2016 that I wanted to dampen some of the enthusiasm at the time around the Blitzer/Harris investment in the club.I wanted to point out their track record in underinvesting in the positions they held in North American teams and in particular their ownership track record with the New Jersey Devils, who have been a dross team for eons. Now, in the NHL, you don't get relegated for underperforming and the team's valuation is driven more by the value of NHL franchises than anything else.

Now, their equity valuation in Palace will take a beating, and they will have to write down the number in their respective funds - which might be covered by upturns elsewhere in their portfolios, but nonetheless, speaking from experience as a General Partner in both retail and private equity funds, it is a difficult conversation to have with your partners around the table!

Then the conversation becomes stick or twist, in other words, reinvest, maybe take some dilution, or take a hit. Does anyone know the current valuation of CPFC today and what it would be if the club is relegated? (I don't have quick access to those numbers). In any event, it might make for an interesting perspective on how the board thinks about a new manager, evaluating the financial optionality around caretaker, versus Roy, versus some deadbeat from Europe or a proven fixer upper who will want money both for his team and for a reinvigorated squad.

Edited by radicalsteve (19 Mar 2023 11.54pm)

 

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 20 Mar 23 7.13am Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by radicalsteve

Does anyone know the current valuation of CPFC today and what it would be if the club is relegated?

Edited by radicalsteve (19 Mar 2023 11.54pm)

CPFC's revenue is around £140M/year and traditionally, the value of any business is a multiple of its revenues, ranging somewhere between 2x and 10x depending on the industry and the state of the economy. Presently, that would value the club at around £300M IF it were a traditional business. But football isn't a traditional business.

Any club (or business) is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Our best recent guide is 2021, when Textor paid around £90M for around 18% of Palace. That would value the club at very roughly £500M, or a multiple of around 4x. That's probably about where we are today.

I would guess revenues would remain reasonably constant for the first year after relegation, but value would drop dramatically. No one is going to pay 4x for a Championship club. And the longer you're out of the PL, the greater the drop. At a rough guess, I'd say if we're sellable for £500M today that would drop instantly to around £350M on relegation, and towards £250M if we didn't come straight back up. In short, relegation will instantly cost the owners millions, likely around £100-£150M overnight.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View eaglesdare's Profile eaglesdare Flag 20 Mar 23 9.50am Send a Private Message to eaglesdare Add eaglesdare as a friend

In Google and other tech area jobs people who have been made redundant have found out via an automated E-mail....

 

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View PJEagle's Profile PJEagle Flag London 20 Mar 23 10.40am Send a Private Message to PJEagle Add PJEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Dubai Eagle

The Forest game was obviously a disappointment, but the performances following the WC break were really unsettling - (Fulham / Tottenham / Southampton in the cup) it felt as though the wheels had fallen off, maybe there was stuff going on behind the scenes that affected the players more than anyone realised at the time -

[Link]

Vieira is very resilient. I think he'd make a good national coach

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 20 Mar 23 1.54pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by radicalsteve

This thread is quite illuminating and very believable. I wrote a post in early 2016 that I wanted to dampen some of the enthusiasm at the time around the Blitzer/Harris investment in the club.I wanted to point out their track record in underinvesting in the positions they held in North American teams and in particular their ownership track record with the New Jersey Devils, who have been a dross team for eons. Now, in the NHL, you don't get relegated for underperforming and the team's valuation is driven more by the value of NHL franchises than anything else.

Now, their equity valuation in Palace will take a beating, and they will have to write down the number in their respective funds - which might be covered by upturns elsewhere in their portfolios, but nonetheless, speaking from experience as a General Partner in both retail and private equity funds, it is a difficult conversation to have with your partners around the table!

Then the conversation becomes stick or twist, in other words, reinvest, maybe take some dilution, or take a hit. Does anyone know the current valuation of CPFC today and what it would be if the club is relegated? (I don't have quick access to those numbers). In any event, it might make for an interesting perspective on how the board thinks about a new manager, evaluating the financial optionality around caretaker, versus Roy, versus some deadbeat from Europe or a proven fixer upper who will want money both for his team and for a reinvigorated squad.

Edited by radicalsteve (19 Mar 2023 11.54pm)

Looking at other club purchases .....

Newcastle £350m

Bournemouth £120m

Chelsea £ 3 billion net.

Man City £200m 2008 !!!

I would ignore what Textor paid for his shares right now as we all find ourselves in a fast falling economic crisis.

Additionally, CPFC finds itself in a precarious place today re status eg position in league and respective finances.

Without writing reams of explanations, I would say the existing shareholders would go for say £200m.

IF we were to go down, and it's a big IF, then obviously that value would drop. Say £150m.

The fact that Newcastle sold for £350m was, benefit of hindsight, a steal in my opinion.
Its value also included a superb stadium, very well located and a solid fan base. Add to that some superb management decisions by the surprising Amanda Staveley, and the Saudis must be looking at least x4 multiple in value in 12 months. Unbelievable. Off the chart. If they make champions league, then maybe more.

This is just my finger in the air guess at values. Syd has a far more methodical and dare i say professional way of working it through, but at least this is another angle to help answer your question. Hope it helps.

 

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View radicalsteve's Profile radicalsteve Flag ottawa 20 Mar 23 6.50pm Send a Private Message to radicalsteve Add radicalsteve as a friend

Thanks for that and Syd's response. I took a quick look at the bare financials in the last fiscal and surmised that probably the club is at a breakeven cashflow wise, and has outstanding loans and notes to current shareholders in the 35M range, so the the net value is in that £250 range, based on previous and comparable recent transactions, estimated revenue and outstanding liabilities. The drop has an estimated negative value of up to £100-150m - noting the Bournemouth recent sale.

That would be quite a wack to PV's position in the business, but even more to Textor. Of course we don't know what the situation is regarding shareholder loans, balance sheet financing and banking covenants. Anyways, Textor might have the upper hand today if he has more to loose and might start calling the shots and therefore push to get proven management on board fast versus PV probably leaning to either a Paddy/Roy temporary solution.

Anyways, total blind conjecture, but a bit of fun during the current doom and gloom situation.

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

Looking at other club purchases .....

Newcastle £350m

Bournemouth £120m

Chelsea £ 3 billion net.

Man City £200m 2008 !!!

I would ignore what Textor paid for his shares right now as we all find ourselves in a fast falling economic crisis.

Additionally, CPFC finds itself in a precarious place today re status eg position in league and respective finances.

Without writing reams of explanations, I would say the existing shareholders would go for say £200m.

IF we were to go down, and it's a big IF, then obviously that value would drop. Say £150m.probaly the club

The fact that Newcastle sold for £350m was, benefit of hindsight, a steal in my opinion.
Its value also included a superb stadium, very well located and a solid fan base. Add to that some superb management decisions by the surprising Amanda Staveley, and the Saudis must be looking at least x4 multiple in value in 12 months. Unbelievable. Off the chart. If they make champions league, then maybe more.

This is just my finger in the air guess at values. Syd has a far more methodical and dare i say professional way of working it through, but at least this is another angle to help answer your question. Hope it helps.

Edited by radicalsteve (20 Mar 2023 8.28pm)

Edited by radicalsteve (20 Mar 2023 11.12pm)

 

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