South Africa sell arms to Russia say the U.S.A.
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 beak  croydon 12 May 23 9.19pm |
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It is probably true so their wine is no longer on my shopping list and I hope they are heavily sanctioned.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-65563027
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Matov  12 May 23 9.45pm |
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I know. Fancy a nation like South Africa deciding to set its own foreign policy rather than do what the West tells it to? Very uppity those Africans.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| beak croydon 12 May 23 10.08pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
I know. Fancy a nation like South Africa deciding to set its own foreign policy rather than do what the West tells it to? Very uppity those Africans. The Invasion of Ukraine is a cruel act,I don't give a FX about East/West but right and wrong mean a lot to me.
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| footythoughts Beckenham 12 May 23 10.25pm |
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There's never been much morality to who sells arms to whom, and that certainly and unfortunately includes us.
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| Dubai Eagle 13 May 23 6.49am |
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If enough of the right questions are asked of the right people going back far enough I doubt any arms manufacturing country has completely clear conscience, whether it was for commercial reasons or because they thought was the right thing to do at the time.
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| Matov 13 May 23 7.05am |
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Originally posted by Dubai Eagle
If enough of the right questions are asked of the right people going back far enough I doubt any arms manufacturing country has completely clear conscience, whether it was for commercial reasons or because they thought was the right thing to do at the time.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Dubai Eagle 13 May 23 7.33am |
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if enough digging is done all arms manufacturers will have sales to end users which with hindsight they probably shouldn't have agreed to, however (& I am not defending anyone specifically) for some products its often not as simple as that, obviously in the west there is due diligence on arms sales that needs to be carried out, often before quoting or tendering, but for example - at the time of the sale there were no sanctions, no arms embargo, but you take 12 months to get your product ready & deliver the goods & 5 minutes after your consignment was delivered things changed, the receiver of the goods became an adversary by attacking someone that you have a friendly force agreement with, then what do you do ? you can hardly ask for the weapons back ?
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| footythoughts Beckenham 13 May 23 8.39am |
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Originally posted by Matov
This is always my first thought when questions like this come up.
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| cryrst The garden of England 13 May 23 11.10am |
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If it wasn’t SA it would be someone else.
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| footythoughts Beckenham 13 May 23 11.11am |
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Originally posted by cryrst
If it wasn’t SA it would be someone else. True unfortunately.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 13 May 23 12.02pm |
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You cannot control arms not matter how much politicians pretend we have an ethical policy. A dodgy regime wants to buy our latest small arms so their police and troops can use them against their own citizens. Piously we say no way. Meanwhile a more likeable country is allowed to buy said weapons. These are upgrades on their old stock which they decide to sell on to another country possibly even the one we refused. Or maybe to another country another who in turns sells on their old weapons to the despicable country. Anyway eventually the nasty regime gets weapons, they may not be the newest and best but hey it's only unarmed citizens they are firing out so they'll do the job. The Yes Minister episode The Whisky priest does a good job explaining it all with the cynical Sir Humphrey explaining to a distraught Minister you either sell weapons or you don't. Edited by Badger11 (13 May 2023 12.04pm)
One more point |
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 13 May 23 2.53pm |
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but its not really any country that is selling the Arms. Its companies within the country. Whoever was selling that stuff, could re-locate to Botswana, Namibia, or wherever and continue to ply their trade. SA itself seems to be a lawless sh1thole. Where the Kalashnikov rules and Car-jacking is the order of the day. people chucking Petrol bombs at the cops in France. Do we halt the sale of Petrol ? seen the big Arms-Fair at East London ? what is the difference between a drug-dealer and a Barman ? morality is often grey.
Eze Peasy at Anfield.... |
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