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View mattwebb's Profile mattwebb Flag Sutton 02 Nov 04 1.28pm Send a Private Message to mattwebb Add mattwebb as a friend

Laddo, you tell me to get my facts sorted.

Have you actually read the Koran???

You think it is a peaceful book, here are some verses straight out of the Koran!

Koran 8:12 Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them." Here Mohammed is giving step by step instruction on how to torture and kill Kafirs if they don't follow Islam.

Koran 47:4 When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.

Koran 5:33-34 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that

These verses come direct from an Islamic website that allows you to search the Koran.

Try it yourself, you will see that the Koran is not peaceful, Islam is an evil, evil religion that does not preach peace in anyway [Link]

 

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View mattwebb's Profile mattwebb Flag Sutton 02 Nov 04 1.33pm Send a Private Message to mattwebb Add mattwebb as a friend

Moose the Bible does not say a baby is without sin.

This isn't about the Bible or Christianity.

Laddo; you are so ignorant it is unreal, Christianity is not responsible for war, humans are!!!

Humans use any excuse to fight! Why are there fights at football games? Is it because of religion? No, is it because of football, no!

People use football as an excuse for violence, they use halloween as an exuse for violence, and they abuse religion.

If you want a secular world, then let's get rid of football, and all other competitive things because it is devisive and people use it as an excuse for violence!

What a stupid thing to say.

I am not blind, I was once, but I am no longer, you are still spiritually dead and extremely blind! So blind, you don't even know it!

 

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View JollyStef's Profile JollyStef 02 Nov 04 1.36pm Send a Private Message to JollyStef Add JollyStef as a friend

I myself am bloody terrified of islam and funamental muslims and what they stand for. Have had my arguments with mattwebb but I'll follow him in this.

Unfortunately this is not what the debate is all about or the justification for a war .. otherwise it would ba a global war against ALL muslim countries (which it isn't). Surely mattwebb you can see this ..

So whatever we feel or think of islam is not the point here, let's get back to the original thread !!

 


finished

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View mattwebb's Profile mattwebb Flag Sutton 02 Nov 04 1.41pm Send a Private Message to mattwebb Add mattwebb as a friend

I agree

 

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View al81's Profile al81 Flag finchley 02 Nov 04 2.09pm Send a Private Message to al81 Add al81 as a friend

Quote JollyStef at 02 Nov 2004 1:36pm

I myself am bloody terrified of islam and funamental muslims and what they stand for. Have had my arguments with mattwebb but I'll follow him in this.

Unfortunately this is not what the debate is all about or the justification for a war .. otherwise it would ba a global war against ALL muslim countries (which it isn't). Surely mattwebb you can see this ..

So whatever we feel or think of islam is not the point here, let's get back to the original thread !!


oh for God's sake, don't be so ridiculous. Islam is one thing - a concept - and what Muslims might say or do is something totally different. It's the same for every religion or ideology. Having studied Islam for 5 years, I defy anyone to tell me Islam is not a peaceful way of life.
I'm a Muslim and I too am scared of these crazy 'fundamentalists' but they don't represent Islam any more than the IRA represent Catholics etc...

But I agree - that's a separate debate so I will happily go back to the original thread


 

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View jcreedy's Profile jcreedy Flag 02 Nov 04 2.18pm Send a Private Message to jcreedy Add jcreedy as a friend

Quote laddo at 02 Nov 2004 1:21pm

Intersting Cucking and you make some valid points. However do you see where I'm coming from with regards to believing a secular world would be a happier world? I am not religios as you have probably gathered but morally I believe it is wrong to steal, hurt your fellow man and discriminate against others. I didn't learn that from a bible but through family values and from those around me. A world without religion but with people sharing those fundamental values of how to treat one another would surely be the best environment in which to live.

Great post laddo.

 


It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

- John Bostock (Nov 2007)

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View Legal Eagle's Profile Legal Eagle Flag A town where fog lights shine, eve... 02 Nov 04 4.43pm Send a Private Message to Legal Eagle Add Legal Eagle as a friend

Quote mattwebb at 02 Nov 2004 1:28pm

Laddo, you tell me to get my facts sorted.

Have you actually read the Koran???

You think it is a peaceful book, here are some verses straight out of the Koran!

Koran 8:12 Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them." Here Mohammed is giving step by step instruction on how to torture and kill Kafirs if they don't follow Islam.

Koran 47:4 When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.

Koran 5:33-34 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that

These verses come direct from an Islamic website that allows you to search the Koran.

Try it yourself, you will see that the Koran is not peaceful, Islam is an evil, evil religion that does not preach peace in anyway [Link]


Tell me, does the bible contain no passage which can be construed in the manner with which you have construed the Koran?

The fact that you believe that Islam is evil worries me deeply. Your arrogance is unbelievable.

 


It's just a matter of crossing the i's and dotting the t's

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View mattwebb's Profile mattwebb Flag Sutton 02 Nov 04 5.41pm Send a Private Message to mattwebb Add mattwebb as a friend

I haven't construed anything, I got these quotes from a Muslim website.

Arrogance? What are you on about?

What are you worried about? I have simply given verses from the Koran itself, look it up if you don't believe me!

What is the problem with that? How is that construing and how is that arrogant?

Islam has caused 911 and many more atroscities, they have been following the Koran to the letter, and that is how a good Muslim should live.

Please tell me how I am wrong, and how I have misrepresented the Koran which you claim to know so well?

 

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 02 Nov 04 5.43pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Quote al81 at 02 Nov 2004 2:09pm

Having studied Islam for 5 years, I defy anyone to tell me Islam is not a peaceful way of life.
I'm a Muslim and I too am scared of these crazy 'fundamentalists' but they don't represent Islam any more than the IRA represent Catholics etc...

But I agree - that's a separate debate so I will happily go back to the original thread

Just out of interest, how do you reconcile your comments with the quotations from the Koran that Mattwebb posted? Are they misquotes?

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View mattwebb's Profile mattwebb Flag Sutton 02 Nov 04 5.45pm Send a Private Message to mattwebb Add mattwebb as a friend

Cucking they are mild in comparison to other verses. It is an evil religion intent on converting the world to it's rule.

People who say it's not are either ignorant of what the Koran says, or too scared to admit it, or Muslims that don't want people to know the truth.

Just read the book, if you don't believe me, until you have how can you judge me?

Legal Eagle please find me a verse from the Bible used in it's context that directly commands Christians or Jews to kill Muslims? To cut the heads of people who don't believe in Christ?

Please enlighten me because as one who has studied both the Bible and the Koran, I see no verses of similar brutality to the ones I just quoted you from the Koran.

Edited by mattwebb (02 Nov 2004 5:54pm)

 

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View laddo's Profile laddo Flag london 02 Nov 04 6.11pm Send a Private Message to laddo Add laddo as a friend

mattweb, get a dictionary and find out what a secular society would mean. To suggest to have a secular society you have to get rid of "football" is absolutely ridiculous and confirms my opinion that you are an absolute dick head.

Your bashing of Islam is exactly why I cannot understand how the hell you can call yourself a christian, yet at the same time confirms how ridiculous religion all is. I thought the bible preaches tolerance, yet you are obviously extremely intolerant of Islam and people who are different to you.

Do you agree with homosexuals in your church? Do you think that disabled kids are paying for a previous sin, would you expect a female loved one, be it wife, girlfriend, mother etc to give birth after being raped or knowing that their child could be born with severe brain damage.

You moan about fundamentalist muslims, but from where I'm standing you are just as close to being a fundamentalist christian which is just as scary. Your intolerance, inability to respect other religions and narrow minded attitudes to those around you make me sick. The fact is if there is a God then I guarantee that you'll be on your way to hell with your attitude, which quite frankly stinks of right wing s***.

 


laddo

"People say, live fast, die young. I say live fast, die old. That's me, the non-conformist".
David Brent.

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View mattwebb's Profile mattwebb Flag Sutton 02 Nov 04 7.09pm Send a Private Message to mattwebb Add mattwebb as a friend

Have you actually read my posts?!?!?

When did I say a secular sociey meant getting rid of football?

You can call me a dick head all you like but your lack of intelligence is shining through now. You haven't even understood what I said.

You attribute weird belief systems with Christianity, when they are from reincarnation which clearly isn't anything to do with Christianity.

For the record, and you can scroll back and read it, if you can, but I'll spell it out for you slightly more simply this time so that you can understand it better:

My point was:

Religion isn't alone in being abused as an excuse for violence, football is also abused for an excuse for violence.

Therefore if you believe that a secular world would be more peaceful, do you not also see that a world without football would be more peaceful?

It is a case of you throwing the baby out with the bath water. Football, Christianity, or any difference in views are not responsible for violence, the people who act out the violence are responsible.

If people want to be violent they will use any excuse they can.

Do you understand now that my point was not that secular society meant no football, but that a secular society would be as profitable as a society without football!

Gosh!

 

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