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June 15 2024 9.00am

Woman arrested for silent prayer, god save us

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 28 Dec 22 7.11pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

The monarch is the ''defender of the faith'' ....or faiths.


so, where is he during all this hurley-burley ?

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 22 7.15pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

Quite the opposite, it is you who wants to divert to avoid the reality of the repressive law and the increasingly morally dubious 'legal right' that it facilitates.

If you want to campaign to establish the right for people to do whatever they like, wherever they like (aka anarchy) then why not start your own thread.

This one concerns a person who has decided to break a law. There is no argument that the law exists which permits the order to me made. There is no argument that the means exist to change that law. Whilst in place everyone must abide by it. She didn’t. That you get wound up by it is your problem.

 


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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 28 Dec 22 7.19pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by berlinpalace

OK, slowly, and hopefully for the last time. The reason these restrictions are in place is because several christian fundamentalist groups, one of which this particular woman is a member of, have been running a campaign where they regularly turn up in large numbers to protest on the doorsteps of facilities offering abortion services. These protests have included a whole range of behaviours such as silent praying, waving placards with pictures of bloody foetuses, screaming abuse and other forms of intimidation.
Given that the people who work there and the people who need these services would rather not run this gauntlet every day they have asked that the protests be moved from directly in front of their premises. As these fundamentalists cannot be trusted to behave themselves some local authorities have introduced measures whereby all of their methods of protest are banned from the immediate vicinity of the clinics.
Knowing all of this, and determined to be a martyr for the cause, this woman deliberately broke the law for the fourth time. It doesn't really matter what she was doing, she's a known activist and she knew all she had to do was stand there and she'd get her name in the papers.

Not that I don't appreciate the slowness and had this incident involved screaming and gauntlet running instead of someone praying it would have been different but these strictures could be applied to any protest. Even one with which you agree.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 22 7.27pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

another christian arrested for praying in the street

[Link]

I don’t see any praying. Indeed we don’t hear anything he was actually saying. The police don’t arrest for no reason, so it seems likely they were concerned that a breach of the peace was going to happen if they didn’t act.

Unrelated to the other issue though.

 


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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 28 Dec 22 7.28pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If you want to campaign to establish the right for people to do whatever they like, wherever they like (aka anarchy) then why not start your own thread.

This one concerns a person who has decided to break a law. There is no argument that the law exists which permits the order to me made. There is no argument that the means exist to change that law. Whilst in place everyone must abide by it. She didn’t. That you get wound up by it is your problem.

It is you that is getting wound up - by someone doing nothing but stand in a public street.

 

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View berlinpalace's Profile berlinpalace Flag berlin 28 Dec 22 7.32pm Send a Private Message to berlinpalace Add berlinpalace as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Not that I don't appreciate the slowness and had this incident involved screaming and gauntlet running instead of someone praying it would have been different but these strictures could be applied to any protest. Even one with which you agree.

Because these people have a history of intimidatory tactics all of their forms of protest are banned, it's a win/win for them if they're allowed to scream and shout abuse they will and if they get arrested they get their names in the paper and more publicity.
Don't worry too much about the right to protest here, this is all factored in when they're orgranising these protests, in some ways it helps their cause if they can make the authorities appear heavy handed. And they love a bit of martydom.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 28 Dec 22 7.39pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by berlinpalace

Because these people have a history of intimidatory tactics all of their forms of protest are banned, it's a win/win for them if they're allowed to scream and shout abuse they will and if they get arrested they get their names in the paper and more publicity.
Don't worry too much about the right to protest here, this is all factored in when they're orgranising these protests, in some ways it helps their cause if they can make the authorities appear heavy handed. And they love a bit of martydom.

Appear heavy handed! What for arresting someone for silently standing in a public street?

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 22 7.44pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Yes but what about a lady praying constitutes harassment or causes alarm or distress?

.

Unless you are a lady considering an abortion, alone, confused, ashamed and scared to be seen by anyone who might disapprove then I think it’s impossible to understand.

This has nothing at all to do with the lady praying. She can carry on doing that just about anywhere else. Her rights are not impacted. The rights of the ladies using the facilities to any possibility of distress is protected.

 


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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 28 Dec 22 7.51pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Unless you are a lady considering an abortion, alone, confused, ashamed and scared to be seen by anyone who might disapprove then I think it’s impossible to understand.

This has nothing at all to do with the lady praying. She can carry on doing that just about anywhere else. Her rights are not impacted. The rights of the ladies using the facilities to any possibility of distress is protected.

It has a great deal to do with her praying. Her presence in the area wasn’t a crime in itself, it was the contents of her private thoughts that were considered a crime. If she had stood in the same place thinking about another topic, she would not have been arrested.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 28 Dec 22 7.59pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

.

Unless you are a lady considering an abortion, alone, confused, ashamed and scared to be seen by anyone who might disapprove then I think it’s impossible to understand.

This has nothing at all to do with the lady praying. She can carry on doing that just about anywhere else. Her rights are not impacted. The rights of the ladies using the facilities to any possibility of distress is protected.

By that token unless you are a Premier League player or manager you have no understanding of the stress and pressure they're under so can't comment on them either.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 22 7.59pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

It is you that is getting wound up - by someone doing nothing but stand in a public street.

I am not the least wound up!

This has nothing at all to do with anyone standing in a public street! All the time you believe that is the issue then you have no chance of understanding it.

This is only to do with someone breaking a legal order.

She can stand, sit, dance or sing in a public street just so long as it’s not subject to an order. If she deliberately decides to do it where an order is in place there can only be one reason.

 


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View berlinpalace's Profile berlinpalace Flag berlin 28 Dec 22 8.00pm Send a Private Message to berlinpalace Add berlinpalace as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

It has a great deal to do with her praying. Her presence in the area wasn’t a crime in itself, it was the contents of her private thoughts that were considered a crime. If she had stood in the same place thinking about another topic, she would not have been arrested.

Her presence was the crime, she's clearly known to the police and tried to come up with a smart alec reply about praying in her head. It's exactly the outcome she wanted.
"In footage captured on the street, a police officer is heard asking Ms Vaughan-Spruce: "What are you here for today?" She tells him she's "just standing here."

The officer responds: "Why here of all places? I know you don't live nearby." She replies: "But this is an abortion centre." The PC then says: "Ok, that's why you're stood here. Are you here as part of a protest? Are you praying?"

She denies carrying out a protest before adding: "I might be praying in my head, but not out loud." She is then searched by a female officer and arrested on suspicion of failing to comply with a public spaces protection order."

 

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