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May 11 2021 12.16pm

Economics vs Existentialism

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View Elwissthebest's Profile Elwissthebest Flag Marlborough 10 Apr 21 8.33pm Send a Private Message to Elwissthebest Add Elwissthebest as a friend

Totally outclassed by Chelsea today.

Well, we would be. They have lots of money and spend it. We, seemingly, have no money. At least, we don't spend it. It is a frightening thought, when you look at that Chelsea midfield, that Loftus Cheek wouldn't make their 3rd XI. And yet we drool at the prospect of signing him.

Any of the top six sides, if they hit their stride, can hammer you 5-0 or worse. Today, Chelsea cut us to shreads.

And yet this was the same Chelsea side that lost 2-5 to West Brom seven days ago. So what West Brom achieved was an existential performance. Perhaps Allardyce got his tactics right and Hodgson got his wrong.

So when was the last time Palace put in a performance that defied economic determinism?

What did we learn today?
That eight times out of ten, Chelsea will beat Palace. That we play the likes of Ayew, Ward, van Aanholt and Milivojevic because, presumably, we don't have anyone better than those players. They are completely out of their depth at this level. I find the preference for Ayew over Townsend completely inexplicable.
That Eze can look a world beater against Sheffield United but today we learned that he is light years behind the likes of Havertz, Pulisic, Mount. He'll improve, but at the end of the day, he's a £20m player. Economics again.
If Cahill hadn't put in an existential performance, it would have been north of six goals conceded.
That the game was all over after ten minutes because you need an existential effort to come back from that and we just don't have the spirit.
Zaha is arguably one of the top ten Palace players of all time. He's also hugely over-hyped and would not be in the starting eleven for any top six side. He is petulant, easy to wind up, thinks he's been fouled every time he touches the ball. he has no special chemistry with Benteke, so why pair them together up front? His talismanic importance to us is not in the end a healthy thing. There will of course be those who point out that when he doesn't play we don't win. The Chelsea full back had him completely in his pocket all afternoon. His existential importance lessens by the match.
So there we are. When we first got in the top flight in the late sixties we used regularly to be thumped by the big teams. It's happening again. The issue is whether we want to continue in the top flight, escaping relegation every year, but never threatening to break into the top ten and as someone memorably put it in a recent post, going out of the Carabao to Rochdale on penalties. Some, many, would say that this is all that counts, no matter how excruciating the football (our performance against Brighton at home this year was right out of the bottom drawer). Or do we re-invent ourselves as a club that will never have the money to compete (economics again) so we look to our Academy. Existentialism. Team of the Eighties, anyone?

Given the power of economics, if we stay in the top flight, today's result will happen several times a season.

 

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View Rachid Rachid Rachid's Profile Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 10 Apr 21 8.47pm Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid Add Rachid Rachid Rachid as a friend

We got to a second FA Cup Final in the club's entire history just under five years ago and have done Man Utd twice away in the last two years and City once.

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 10 Apr 21 8.49pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

I've described the arguments battered about in the Roy Out thread as reflecting an existential crisis, and whilst I'm sure at least one of us is using the term incorrectly, I think you are totally correct to look at the bigger picture.

Fans expectation of more entertainment is entirely reasonable and immature at the same time. The players we have are both a massive waste of money and close to being a bargain overall. We spend more on one player in Eze than used to be our entire budget, yet a third of the league we are in spends more on a reserve defender than that, so what expectations should we have? There is no joy to be had in watching us play, but even less in seeing us play differently and lose. A near decade in the top flight is all our dreams come true and a waking nightmare too.

Against this, does it really matter if Roy goes or stays?

 

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View Brinscalleagle2's Profile Brinscalleagle2 Flag Brinscall 10 Apr 21 9.31pm Send a Private Message to Brinscalleagle2 Add Brinscalleagle2 as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I've described the arguments battered about in the Roy Out thread as reflecting an existential crisis, and whilst I'm sure at least one of us is using the term incorrectly, I think you are totally correct to look at the bigger picture.

Fans expectation of more entertainment is entirely reasonable and immature at the same time. The players we have are both a massive waste of money and close to being a bargain overall. We spend more on one player in Eze than used to be our entire budget, yet a third of the league we are in spends more on a reserve defender than that, so what expectations should we have? There is no joy to be had in watching us play, but even less in seeing us play differently and lose. A near decade in the top flight is all our dreams come true and a waking nightmare too.

Against this, does it really matter if Roy goes or stays?

I guess it doesn’t matter if Roy stays or goes to the the outcome of our league position. The outcome will depend on the desire of our owners and their ambitions. They are acutely aware that our current manager has achieved the maximum performance from the players on our books. So what happens next ? Only the owners can answer that and what happens next is entirely in their hands. A change of manager on its own will achieve nothing.

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 10 Apr 21 9.40pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Brinscalleagle2

I guess it doesn’t matter if Roy stays or goes to the the outcome of our league position. The outcome will depend on the desire of our owners and their ambitions. They are acutely aware that our current manager has achieved the maximum performance from the players on our books. So what happens next ? Only the owners can answer that and what happens next is entirely in their hands. A change of manager on its own will achieve nothing.

It is not within our owners gift to change the economic structure of Premier league football.

 

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 10 Apr 21 10.24pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Existentialism. I thought that was to with the the idea of being responsible for what one does and how it affects oneself and/or others.

Other than that, I haven't a clue what you mean.

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 11 Apr 21 6.15am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

Existentialism. I thought that was to with the the idea of being responsible for what one does and how it affects oneself and/or others.

Other than that, I haven't a clue what you mean.

I don't think that the OP does either judging by his misuse of vocabulary

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 11 Apr 21 6.34am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I don't think that the OP does either judging by his misuse of vocabulary

Existential nihilist then.

 

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View EddieMac's Profile EddieMac Flag 11 Apr 21 7.18am Send a Private Message to EddieMac Add EddieMac as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

Existentialism. I thought that was to with the the idea of being responsible for what one does and how it affects oneself and/or others.

Other than that, I haven't a clue what you mean.

Is that the first google meaning you got when you searched for it?

 

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View Runningman's Profile Runningman Flag Keston 11 Apr 21 8.02am Send a Private Message to Runningman Add Runningman as a friend

I notice that Haaland’s agent is pitching to make him the first £1m a WEEK player.
Do we really want this in our game ?

 

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View Davepalace707's Profile Davepalace707 Flag Northumberland 11 Apr 21 9.44am Send a Private Message to Davepalace707 Add Davepalace707 as a friend

Originally posted by Runningman

I notice that Haaland’s agent is pitching to make him the first £1m a WEEK player.
Do we really want this in our game ?

I know none of us want the top monied clubs of the Premier League breaking away into some Euro Super League, but I can’t help thinking it’s heading that way

 


“You miss 100 per cent of the shots you don’t take”

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View Elwissthebest's Profile Elwissthebest Flag Marlborough 11 Apr 21 9.57am Send a Private Message to Elwissthebest Add Elwissthebest as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

Existentialism. I thought that was to with the the idea of being responsible for what one does and how it affects oneself and/or others.

Other than that, I haven't a clue what you mean.

Apologies, and to Midland Eagle as well, for any obscurity.
By 'existential', I mean an assertion of the will that exceeds expectation. In this case, the expectation is that you can't escape economics. At the end of the season, you are looking, by and large, at a League table that reflects economic advantage. But Chelsea 2 West Brom 5 can't be explained by that. So how to explain it other than by a 'super-human' effort?
So when did Palace last exceed expectation? You can't overcome a technically superior opposition other than by countering that superiority by something different, unusual, unexpected. But in no respect could we even match Chelsea yesterday. As Chris Coleman said, Chelsea 'wanted it more'. How can that be?
Let's imagine that for some reason, we had Klopp or Guardiola managing us for a season. What difference would it make? Ten more points a season? So in that respect Hodgson isn't the problem. What is a problem is that we can still be as outclassed as we were yesterday. We'll never have the money to compete with the big teams, but in the absence of that, we need inspiration from somewhere, and it's in pretty short supply at the moment. My point was simply that many posters, and perhaps the Board, accepts that economic circumstances means we can't do better than hope to escape relegation every year. Really? After eight seasons in the top flight? That we might do better than just that is what, for good or ill, I chose to term Existentialism. With respect, my use of the term is not misplaced. An early poster-The Big Toe Punt?-caught the sense of this very well.

 

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