Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 eaglesdare  13 Jul 23 4.33pm |
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I see the US are trying to escalate this war by proxy. Get Sleeepy Joe out now!
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| eaglesdare 13 Jul 23 4.41pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Pretty much. People actually believe that what they get told is the truth, whereas when you dig deeper it's actually the same as everything the media does.....it's a narrative, it's not lies as such, they just present the situation in a way that fits their narrative...but omitting anything that muddies or counters it....the only time the issues are raised is for them denying or demonising them. Ironically, it's very Soviet or China like....which is the direction we are heading in. We live in a time where most don't really care, it's just about winning for them....they don't really care much above that. If you raise any issue you're suddenly a Putin fan.....when Russia do exactly the same thing in their media. Russia are not the good guys, Russia are operating in their own interests....and that isn't ours. We operate in the US neo con's interests. There are no good guys in this war and hundreds of thousands of people have died thinking that they were on a good side when in truth they were lied to. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2023 7.06pm) What you dont see is people in East Ukraine are actually pro Russian and to them they are liberated.
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jul 23 6.07pm |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
What you dont see is people in East Ukraine are actually pro Russian and to them they are liberated. It's probably the biggest thing about this war that both media and government gross over. Yet, that separation from their government, is exactly the same reason why so many countries they recognise today exist....The US included.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Daddyorc Online  Atlantic Highlands, NJ 14 Jul 23 6.34pm |
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So how oppressed were these people in East Ukraine? As far as I could tell, not very. Donetsk was a thriving city, with some of the wealthiest Ukrainians there. Now, it's just a shattered empty image of what it used to be. Putin is a bully that uses the "liberation" factor to take lands that don't belong to Russia anymore. The reality is he doesn't "love" his people, if he did he wouldn't be sending so many of them to die or be maimed by fighting against a country where the people are so similar to his own. How many Ukrainians have you met or heard from that actually like what Putin is doing? There's lots of famous Ukrainians, but I have yet to hear one on his side. I know the media mostly reports positive stories about the Ukrainian war. But it doesn't make what Putin is doing any less despicable.
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jul 23 7.19pm |
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Originally posted by Daddyorc
So how oppressed were these people in East Ukraine? As far as I could tell, not very. Donetsk was a thriving city, with some of the wealthiest Ukrainians there. Now, it's just a shattered empty image of what it used to be. Putin is a bully that uses the "liberation" factor to take lands that don't belong to Russia anymore. The reality is he doesn't "love" his people, if he did he wouldn't be sending so many of them to die or be maimed by fighting against a country where the people are so similar to his own. How many Ukrainians have you met or heard from that actually like what Putin is doing? There's lots of famous Ukrainians, but I have yet to hear one on his side. I know the media mostly reports positive stories about the Ukrainian war. But it doesn't make what Putin is doing any less despicable. Ok, it's time some truth was spoken about this. The south and east of Ukraine have the highest number of ethnic Russian speakers with Russian heritage in Ukraine. When past elections are looked at the vote for pro Russian parties was always high. This is completely ignored....Yet it is the truth. The democratically elected pro Russian government before 2014 was taken down in a coup. It was not voted out....the change in government was not put to a national vote. This is completely ignored....Yet it is the truth. This led to Ukrainian army units in the south and east taking over their own territories from the new government in Kiev.....they were willing to fight and die rather than live under the new regime which they knew was anti them. This is completely ignored....Yet it is the truth. The civil war that started carried out with both western financial backing, Russia backing and Russia supplied mercs and equipment, that's true all until the Minsk agreement. This agreement turned out to be abused with massive military build up and shelling. People rightly point to Russia as a corrupt and mafia state. Yet the Ukraine is little better. The US neo cons just use it as a low cost battering ram against the Russians.....Yet the harm done to the world over this far exceeds their short termism. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jul 2023 7.29pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jul 23 7.31pm |
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Originally posted by Daddyorc
So how oppressed were these people in East Ukraine? As far as I could tell, not very. Donetsk was a thriving city, with some of the wealthiest Ukrainians there. Now, it's just a shattered empty image of what it used to be. Putin is a bully that uses the "liberation" factor to take lands that don't belong to Russia anymore. The reality is he doesn't "love" his people, if he did he wouldn't be sending so many of them to die or be maimed by fighting against a country where the people are so similar to his own. How many Ukrainians have you met or heard from that actually like what Putin is doing? There's lots of famous Ukrainians, but I have yet to hear one on his side. I know the media mostly reports positive stories about the Ukrainian war. But it doesn't make what Putin is doing any less despicable. The reason you aren't hearing from any pro Russian propaganda from Ukrainians is exactly the same reason why Russians aren't hearing the opposite. Propaganda is a controlled narrative.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mapletree Croydon 15 Jul 23 10.24am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Ok, it's time some truth was spoken about this. The south and east of Ukraine have the highest number of ethnic Russian speakers with Russian heritage in Ukraine. When past elections are looked at the vote for pro Russian parties was always high. This is completely ignored....Yet it is the truth. The democratically elected pro Russian government before 2014 was taken down in a coup. It was not voted out....the change in government was not put to a national vote. This is completely ignored....Yet it is the truth. This led to Ukrainian army units in the south and east taking over their own territories from the new government in Kiev.....they were willing to fight and die rather than live under the new regime which they knew was anti them. This is completely ignored....Yet it is the truth. The civil war that started carried out with both western financial backing, Russia backing and Russia supplied mercs and equipment, that's true all until the Minsk agreement. This agreement turned out to be abused with massive military build up and shelling. People rightly point to Russia as a corrupt and mafia state. Yet the Ukraine is little better. The US neo cons just use it as a low cost battering ram against the Russians.....Yet the harm done to the world over this far exceeds their short termism. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jul 2023 7.29pm) Your truths are mainly lies Ukrainians became very frustrated with the corruption in elections. For example look at the turnout figures in the East. There was a mass response, primarily driven by young people. For example In total 18.4% of Ukrainians have claimed to have taken part in the Orange Revolution (across Ukraine). As a result of Maidan in 2014, Parliament restored the 2004 amendments put in place by the Orange Revolution. Your words come straight from the mouth of Putin.
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| Stirlingsays 15 Jul 23 4.04pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Your truths are mainly lies Ukrainians became very frustrated with the corruption in elections. For example look at the turnout figures in the East. There was a mass response, primarily driven by young people. For example In total 18.4% of Ukrainians have claimed to have taken part in the Orange Revolution (across Ukraine). As a result of Maidan in 2014, Parliament restored the 2004 amendments put in place by the Orange Revolution. Your words come straight from the mouth of Putin.
Just as I have criticised us and the Zelensky regime I have criticised Russia and Putin many times in this thread. I don't care who says something what I care about is the truth and what the outcomes are of decisions that are made. This war has been a complete failure of US/Russia statecraft and was warned about many times by many different people many years ago: All ignored in probably the most avoidable war I've ever lived to see. As with Covid, people only have to look at my first posts on this war to see that I was open minded about the whole thing. The only difference with myself compared to someone like you perhaps is that I look at what both sides are saying and check against what actually happened. I actually bothered to research it......anyone who reads through this thread can see how Wisbech and myself and others went through this process of debating the issues. I say it with no pleasure but my positions and predictions on this war are largely panning out. It's absolute madness and fighting this war has only worsened the outcomes for everybody. If Trump had been in power it would have probably never happened and if it had it would have been settled back in March 21 with terms far more favourable to Ukraine than what it's going to get now. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jul 2023 4.06pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| matthau South Croydon 15 Jul 23 5.49pm |
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Told you all many times and many times you will all ignore me. It’s all a front to help conceal a new financial system being implemented. XRP digital asset has now got legal clarity and is no longer considered a security. Now with talk of cyber attacks and what not, problem reaction solution to help bring about what Bitcoin has been used for years to do for this very moment : it was used as a testing ground asset whilst xrp was fine tuned. Brics nations breaking away from the west. Xrp is in usa but blockchain isn’t centralised so it can be used globally and is. Written in the stars and the ship is about to sail. Stop falling for MSM narratives. This is a financial transition and they are ALL on the same side.
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 16 Jul 23 11.47am |
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I'm not worried as I know Macron's got this.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Jul 23 5.30pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
I'm not worried as I know Macron's got this.
You know, in a way Macron has been a very successful politician. He's extremely unpopular now but the next election isn't until 2027 and he can't stand again so he doesn't really seem to care. The polls show that a lot of those who fell for the demonisation of Le Pen and voted for him regret it now but they are just going to have to suffer their misjudgments.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 16 Jul 23 6.46pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You know, in a way Macron has been a very successful politician. He's extremely unpopular now but the next election isn't until 2027 and he can't stand again so he doesn't really seem to care. The polls show that a lot of those who fell for the demonisation of Le Pen and voted for him regret it now but they are just going to have to suffer their misjudgments. Plus, he buys his clothes in the kid's department so saves money that way. Win, win.
Red and Blue Army! |
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