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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 26 Mar 24 8.52am
Badger, thank you for your post regarding modern Soviet attitudes. I was in Russia a few times in the 1980.90's, and I didn't feel any undue sense of anything untoward. The people were seemed friendly enough and happy to talk about anything, in the sphere of conversation. The murdering at the weekend by Islamic State morons, has led me to an increasing respect for Putin's regime. Seeing those scumbags being 'questioned' in various videos before being taken to court sends a strong message back to terrorists. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 26 Mar 24 8.52am

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Badger, thank you for your post regarding modern Soviet attitudes.

I was in Russia a few times in the 1980.90's, and I didn't feel any undue sense of anything untoward. The people were seemed friendly enough and happy to talk about anything, in the sphere of conversation.

The murdering at the weekend by Islamic State morons, has led me to an increasing respect for Putin's regime. Seeing those scumbags being 'questioned' in various videos before being taken to court sends a strong message back to terrorists.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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snytaxx London 26 Mar 24 11.39am
Originally posted by Badger11 I was there and St Petersburg in 2019, I did not pick up that vibe, people were friendly and happy to talk, but this is just my perception. I think I mentioned that my Russian friend who lives in the UK says that Putin despite all his nastiness is popular in Russia. Yes he rigged the elections and intimidates and kills people etc. But that doesn't mean that he does not have a supporter base. Russia, apart from a handful of years, has never been a democracy and has always been ruled by autocrats, Putin being the latest. Many Russian still yearn for the good old days of the Soviet Union. When I was in Uzbekistan last year I was surprised at how pro Russian they were, they did not want the Soviet Union to collapse. This is the problem we have in the west, we assume that the rest of the world wants western style democracy and that all dictators are unpopular with their people. I am not sure that is true, I wonder how many Iraqi's regret the fall of Saddam or Libyans the fall of Qaddafi. Edited by Badger11 (26 Mar 2024 7.45am) The problem with this argument though is that it's very lop sided. Plenty of people, places and cultures are happy to live in an autocracy, sure! You can't and nor should anyone force someone to 'be free'. The issue here that by writing off any country as 'better left to their autocracy' is that its hard to really gauge in a dictatorship what people really think thus there is never any real proof other than anecdotally talking to people that people do actually want an autocracy. It's hardly compelling stuff. What's even more sinister is that when a population does then decide they'd rather not live in an autocracy by removing their autocrat, purists of this argument will rush to the tin foil hat cupboard and start spouting the loony talk about how actually they don't and everyone is actually an employee of the CIA / Mainstream Media / LGBT charity/ woke agenda / ISIS (delete as appropriate).
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snytaxx

London 26 Mar 24 11.39am

Originally posted by Badger11

I was there and St Petersburg in 2019, I did not pick up that vibe, people were friendly and happy to talk, but this is just my perception.

I think I mentioned that my Russian friend who lives in the UK says that Putin despite all his nastiness is popular in Russia. Yes he rigged the elections and intimidates and kills people etc. But that doesn't mean that he does not have a supporter base.

Russia, apart from a handful of years, has never been a democracy and has always been ruled by autocrats, Putin being the latest. Many Russian still yearn for the good old days of the Soviet Union.

When I was in Uzbekistan last year I was surprised at how pro Russian they were, they did not want the Soviet Union to collapse.

This is the problem we have in the west, we assume that the rest of the world wants western style democracy and that all dictators are unpopular with their people. I am not sure that is true, I wonder how many Iraqi's regret the fall of Saddam or Libyans the fall of Qaddafi.

Edited by Badger11 (26 Mar 2024 7.45am)

The problem with this argument though is that it's very lop sided. Plenty of people, places and cultures are happy to live in an autocracy, sure! You can't and nor should anyone force someone to 'be free'.

The issue here that by writing off any country as 'better left to their autocracy' is that its hard to really gauge in a dictatorship what people really think thus there is never any real proof other than anecdotally talking to people that people do actually want an autocracy. It's hardly compelling stuff.

What's even more sinister is that when a population does then decide they'd rather not live in an autocracy by removing their autocrat, purists of this argument will rush to the tin foil hat cupboard and start spouting the loony talk about how actually they don't and everyone is actually an employee of the CIA / Mainstream Media / LGBT charity/ woke agenda / ISIS (delete as appropriate).

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eaglesdare 26 Mar 24 11.44am
I see Russia are now kicking out all refugees aftwar what happened.
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eaglesdare

26 Mar 24 11.44am

I see Russia are now kicking out all refugees aftwar what happened.

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eaglesdare 26 Mar 24 11.46am
I honestly think getting rid of dictators in countries like Iraq, Afgan and middle east countries was the worst thing to do. These extremists need Dicators to keep them in line.
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eaglesdare

26 Mar 24 11.46am

I honestly think getting rid of dictators in countries like Iraq, Afgan and middle east countries was the worst thing to do.

These extremists need Dicators to keep them in line.

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 26 Mar 24 12.01pm
Initially I was puzzled by the attack on Moscow but having read an article yesterday on Bloomberg it made sense as ISIS see Russia simply as an extension of the West (which is a little ironic judged on how Russia and The West view each other). In short, and we knew this anyway, everyone who doesn't "believe" is a target. "ISIS and other Sunni Muslim jihadist groups are hostile to Russia for reasons that include Moscow’s support for the regime of Bashar al-Assad in Syria, which fought against Sunni rebels; its alliance with the Shiite regional power Iran; its suppression of separatists in Chechnya, a largely Muslim region of Russia; and even the Soviet Union’s invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and the decade-long war it fought there." Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 26 Mar 24 12.01pm

Initially I was puzzled by the attack on Moscow but having read an article yesterday on Bloomberg it made sense as ISIS see Russia simply as an extension of the West (which is a little ironic judged on how Russia and The West view each other).

In short, and we knew this anyway, everyone who doesn't "believe" is a target.

"ISIS and other Sunni Muslim jihadist groups are hostile to Russia for reasons that include Moscow’s support for the regime of Bashar al-Assad in Syria, which fought against Sunni rebels; its alliance with the Shiite regional power Iran; its suppression of separatists in Chechnya, a largely Muslim region of Russia; and even the Soviet Union’s invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and the decade-long war it fought there."

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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Stirlingsays 26 Mar 24 12.03pm
Originally posted by eaglesdare I honestly think getting rid of dictators in countries like Iraq, Afgan and middle east countries was the worst thing to do. These extremists need Dicators to keep them in line. Bush, Obama and Blair successfully reintroduced slavery into Iraq and Libya. Once upon a time you couldn't open a newspaper or watch the news without constant propaganda concerning these entered into conflicts. Now you could hear a pin drop about what goes on there. Success has many fathers, while failure is an orphan. The lives and treasure wasted on all this had zero accountability back in the west. I tend to think that under an autocracy those that fail so badly wouldn't quite see the same rewards. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Mar 2024 12.04pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Mar 24 12.03pm

Originally posted by eaglesdare

I honestly think getting rid of dictators in countries like Iraq, Afgan and middle east countries was the worst thing to do.

These extremists need Dicators to keep them in line.

Bush, Obama and Blair successfully reintroduced slavery into Iraq and Libya.

Once upon a time you couldn't open a newspaper or watch the news without constant propaganda concerning these entered into conflicts.

Now you could hear a pin drop about what goes on there.

Success has many fathers, while failure is an orphan.

The lives and treasure wasted on all this had zero accountability back in the west. I tend to think that under an autocracy those that fail so badly wouldn't quite see the same rewards.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Mar 2024 12.04pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 26 Mar 24 12.09pm
Originally posted by mezzer Initially I was puzzled by the attack on Moscow but having read an article yesterday on Bloomberg it made sense as ISIS see Russia simply as an extension of the West (which is a little ironic judged on how Russia and The West view each other). In short, and we knew this anyway, everyone who doesn't "believe" is a target. "ISIS and other Sunni Muslim jihadist groups are hostile to Russia for reasons that include Moscow’s support for the regime of Bashar al-Assad in Syria, which fought against Sunni rebels; its alliance with the Shiite regional power Iran; its suppression of separatists in Chechnya, a largely Muslim region of Russia; and even the Soviet Union’s invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and the decade-long war it fought there." I say this with no fore knowledge but my view is that intelligence agencies are involved.....money and possibly indirectly via logistics....The attackers are hired indirectly via proxies. This is what Russia appears to think as they just bombed the SBU in Kiev. Whether it's true of not is impossible to say....but the actual truth is rarely told to the public. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Mar 24 12.09pm

Originally posted by mezzer

In short, and we knew this anyway, everyone who doesn't "believe" is a target.

I say this with no fore knowledge but my view is that intelligence agencies are involved.....money and possibly indirectly via logistics....The attackers are hired indirectly via proxies.

This is what Russia appears to think as they just bombed the SBU in Kiev.

Whether it's true of not is impossible to say....but the actual truth is rarely told to the public.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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becky over the moon 26 Mar 24 12.27pm
Originally posted by eaglesdare I honestly think getting rid of dictators in countries like Iraq, Afgan and middle east countries was the worst thing to do. These extremists need Dicators to keep them in line. Then the Dictators all keep each other in line too .... win, win! A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 26 Mar 24 12.27pm

Originally posted by eaglesdare

I honestly think getting rid of dictators in countries like Iraq, Afgan and middle east countries was the worst thing to do.

These extremists need Dicators to keep them in line.

Then the Dictators all keep each other in line too .... win, win!

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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steeleye20 Croydon 26 Mar 24 1.05pm
ISIS also carried out an attack in Iran on 3rd January this year, 84 people died. Both Putin and Iran appear to have ignored credible USA intelligence.
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steeleye20

Croydon 26 Mar 24 1.05pm

ISIS also carried out an attack in Iran on 3rd January this year, 84 people died.

Both Putin and Iran appear to have ignored credible USA intelligence.

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georgenorman 26 Mar 24 1.33pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 ISIS also carried out an attack in Iran on 3rd January this year, 84 people died. Both Putin and Iran appear to have ignored credible USA intelligence. Redacted. Edited by georgenorman (26 Mar 2024 1.47pm)
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georgenorman

26 Mar 24 1.33pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

ISIS also carried out an attack in Iran on 3rd January this year, 84 people died.

Both Putin and Iran appear to have ignored credible USA intelligence.

Redacted.

Edited by georgenorman (26 Mar 2024 1.47pm)

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Mar 24 4.36pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I say this with no fore knowledge but my view is that intelligence agencies are involved.....money and possibly indirectly via logistics....The attackers are hired indirectly via proxies. This is what Russia appears to think as they just bombed the SBU in Kiev. Whether it's true of not is impossible to say....but the actual truth is rarely told to the public. It wouldn't be any surprise frankly. A lot of people think it no doubt but the truth won't be known for some time - if ever. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Mar 24 4.36pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I say this with no fore knowledge but my view is that intelligence agencies are involved.....money and possibly indirectly via logistics....The attackers are hired indirectly via proxies.

This is what Russia appears to think as they just bombed the SBU in Kiev.

Whether it's true of not is impossible to say....but the actual truth is rarely told to the public.

It wouldn't be any surprise frankly. A lot of people think it no doubt but the truth won't be known for some time - if ever.

Red and Blue Army!

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Mar 24 4.50pm
Tajikistan is a long, long story but it wasn't that long ago that police shaved off beards of more than ten thousand men, hijabs are banned and mosques, shall I say discouraged. There is also a large Russian involvement that you may or may not notice depending on the sources you read. There are regionalised identities and a Sunni/ Shi'ite divide in the mix. There was originally a civil war, the secular nationalists won to cut a long story short - but the issues are not exactly over. I believe someone like Louis Theroux did a programme on it so you can watch that if you're that way inclined. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Mar 24 4.50pm

Tajikistan is a long, long story but it wasn't that long ago that police shaved off beards of more than ten thousand men, hijabs are banned and mosques, shall I say discouraged. There is also a large Russian involvement that you may or may not notice depending on the sources you read. There are regionalised identities and a Sunni/ Shi'ite divide in the mix.
There was originally a civil war, the secular nationalists won to cut a long story short - but the issues are not exactly over. I believe someone like Louis Theroux did a programme on it so you can watch that if you're that way inclined.

Red and Blue Army!

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