General Election 2017
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 CambridgeEagle  Sydenham 02 Jun 17 9.26am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It does. It shows that despite her misgivings, she accepted the democratic choice of the people. You do realise that Labour voted in favour of invoking article 50?
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Jun 17 9.29am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
No I think Communist is a more accurate description for a man who is being backed and uncontested by the Communist party and was voted in as leader by many from that party. Fascists backed UKIP so I suppose that makes Farage and Nuttall Fascists following your logic?
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Jun 17 9.34am |
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Originally posted by Mstrobez
Of course no deal is a bad deal but in any negotiation you have to be prepared to walk away. That's like rule number one so I don't necessarily disagree with that stance. What doesn't fill me with confidence is her approach to it all. Constantly banging on about it is a very negative and antagonistic way of portraying yourself. Just like "being prepared to walk away" is a quite obvious strategy in negotiaitions, so too is "calling the bluff". If we're not careful the EU will do exactly that before we've even begun. For the record I'm more optimistic than many about our Brexit negotiations for the simple reason that has been widely preached of our mutual interests - I think people largely underestimate grown-ups ability to be rational once the games and pantomime is over. What makes me nervous, though, is a PM who lacks conviction and seems unable to rub people the right way. There is no point us sitting here hurling abuse at the EU and then expecting for negotiations to go our way - that's a similar logic to calling all rich people greedy scum and then expecting them to give the state more money. There are ways to go about things and ways to achieve the outcome you believe is right and contrary to popular belief I think the tories are approaching pretty much everything at the moment in a very chaotic and arrogant manor, appearing quite naive and out of their depth in the process. I'm sure someone will reply to tell me how much of a numpty Corbyn is, but I still haven't been convinced he's half the idiot people make him out yet, he'll need to hurry up or he's getting my vote. My vote goes to the man I've watched over the past couple of years, and my vote goes for a change that we desperately need, even if I'm not 100% convinced the scale of change is achievable - something has to give and we need to start investing in growth and giving people a little bit of a hand who need it. Elections can be divisive old things, but I think at the end of it all, most people want the same thing. But this isn't like buying a used car. How do you walk away? Pull up the drawbridge? We HAVE to have a relationship with the EU, we don't have a choice. So some arrangements have to be put in place. There is no such thing as "no deal". You need agreement on really basic stuff like border control all the way through to maintaining supply chains for UK and EU businesses. We won't just stop importing and exporting to the EU if they can't agree. In negotiations you need an element of getting along and bonhomie to get the best deals. Give and take. Corbyn is a much more polite and affable man and likely to get concessions than May in my opinion who has no ability to react to the unexpected and a cold and off-putting manner.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Jun 17 9.50am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
But this isn't like buying a used car. How do you walk away? Pull up the drawbridge? We HAVE to have a relationship with the EU, we don't have a choice. So some arrangements have to be put in place. There is no such thing as "no deal". You need agreement on really basic stuff like border control all the way through to maintaining supply chains for UK and EU businesses. We won't just stop importing and exporting to the EU if they can't agree. In negotiations you need an element of getting along and bonhomie to get the best deals. Give and take. Corbyn is a much more polite and affable man and likely to get concessions than May in my opinion who has no ability to react to the unexpected and a cold and off-putting manner. You seriously believe this? In international politics - somewhat naive I think. I understand Chamberlain was quite affable whereas Hitler was somewhat cold and off-putting, as was Stalin at Yalta.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Jun 17 10.11am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
You seriously believe this? In international politics - somewhat naive I think. I understand Chamberlain was quite affable whereas Hitler was somewhat cold and off-putting, as was Stalin at Yalta. I understand Hitler was, whilst evil and mad, a very good actor and could be very charming and charismatic. He managed to charm vin Hindenburg so completely that he signed off everything Hitler asked of him. Goebells' diaries also mention frequently that Hitler often chatted very pleasantly among his close acquaintances and came across as a good listener. I doubt he would have been able to mastermind such a coup of Germany and become so all-powerful without being charming and affable when he needed to be. If only he had been cold and off-putting, people might not have been so enamoured with him. Stalin at Yalta was in the strongest position of the three (helped by the Cambridge 5 - done my reading now!), and from accounts "appeared reasonable, he was friendly and affable." May has very little charm.
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Frickin Saweet  South Cronx 02 Jun 17 10.18am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
But this isn't like buying a used car. How do you walk away? Pull up the drawbridge? We HAVE to have a relationship with the EU, we don't have a choice. So some arrangements have to be put in place. There is no such thing as "no deal". You need agreement on really basic stuff like border control all the way through to maintaining supply chains for UK and EU businesses. We won't just stop importing and exporting to the EU if they can't agree. In negotiations you need an element of getting along and bonhomie to get the best deals. Give and take. Corbyn is a much more polite and affable man and likely to get concessions than May in my opinion who has no ability to react to the unexpected and a cold and off-putting manner. this is true but you can't sacrifice the fundamentals of your wants in negotiations just to 'get along'. If the deal is way off what is acceptable then it's better to walk away, regroup and start again, than concede everything and end up getting a crap deal. The fallout of Brexit will define our future much more than which party is in charge for the next five years - unfortunately the two things are intrinsically linked.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Jun 17 10.27am |
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Ha-Joon Chang's thoughts on public spending and taxation. He's a very well respected Economist and one whose lectures I remember fondly. He talks about being influences by economists from across the spectrum.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Jun 17 10.29am |
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Originally posted by Frickin Saweet
this is true but you can't sacrifice the fundamentals of your wants in negotiations just to 'get along'. If the deal is way off what is acceptable then it's better to walk away, regroup and start again, than concede everything and end up getting a crap deal. The fallout of Brexit will define our future much more than which party is in charge for the next five years - unfortunately the two things are intrinsically linked. Isn't the art of negotiation compromise. A deal won't be forged straight away, be a lot of toing and froing
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| npn Crowborough 02 Jun 17 10.48am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Isn't the art of negotiation compromise. A deal won't be forged straight away, be a lot of toing and froing Absolutely there will, but you do need to have the ultimate sanction of walking away in your armoury. Going into negotiations with people who, let's be honest, want to shaft us as much as possible as a warning to others, with a starting point of "we are not coming out without a deal" is akin to going into a car showroom with a starting point of "I'm having that car right there, no matter what" and, more importantly, letting them know that's your stance. You'll get a much worse deal than someone who's going to make them work to get a sale.
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 10.56am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I understand Hitler was, whilst evil and mad, a very good actor and could be very charming and charismatic. He managed to charm vin Hindenburg so completely that he signed off everything Hitler asked of him. Goebells' diaries also mention frequently that Hitler often chatted very pleasantly among his close acquaintances and came across as a good listener. I doubt he would have been able to mastermind such a coup of Germany and become so all-powerful without being charming and affable when he needed to be. If only he had been cold and off-putting, people might not have been so enamoured with him. Stalin at Yalta was in the strongest position of the three (helped by the Cambridge 5 - done my reading now!), and from accounts "appeared reasonable, he was friendly and affable." May has very little charm. That's absolutely not true. Hindenburg had utter contempt for Hitler, going so far as to refer to him as a "Bohemian corporal". He (very reluctantly) appointed Hitler as Chancellor as the only alternative would have been an inexorable descent into chaos and civil war (admittedly stoked by the Nazis). He saw the appointment of Hitler very much as the lesser of two evils. No way did Hitler "charm" him - he saw through him and detested him to his dying breath.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Jun 17 11.02am |
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True colours. Such contempt for those struggling.
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Attachment: | Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 11.09am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
True colours. Such contempt for those struggling. Fake account. Already been suspended. You really are gullible, aren't you?
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