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Labour leadership contest.
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 Midlands Eagle  17 Dec 19 11.02am |
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As I posted elsewhere Boris would make mincemeat of her at PMQs
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 17 Dec 19 11.04am |
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Originally posted by Matov
Thought it worth a seperate thread. Only one of the contenders who makes me look twice is Lisa Nandy. And yes, perhaps the easiest on the eye but also the one who said the second referendum policy was insanity along with not being associated with the Corbyn project. For Labour, the next 5 years are not about opposition. Johnson can effectively do what he wants with them relegated to waving their arms in the air. But rebuilding the trust they have lost in the North has to be their number 1 priority. Nandy is the only one with clean hands. The rest will be just be slaughtered, time and time again, for their part in what happened. This could of course work against her.I think some influential figures in the Labour movement have asserted that Corbynism must outlive Corbyn and with the membership (Momentum) choosing the new leader it is the model of plausibility that Corbyn MK2 will be appointed.
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| Matov 17 Dec 19 11.06am |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
As I posted elsewhere Boris would make mincemeat of her at PMQs
The next 5 years for Labour are not about the HoC. That battle is unwinnable. They need to regain their core support, just to survive. They won Putney and sacrificed Blythe Valley in the process. That is the rot they need to address. Nandy can stand up and declare herself a truly fresh pair of hands. She was vocal in decrying the insanity of the second referendum policy. And is not part of the rabid Trot element either. For me, she is a no-brainer but ultimately not my circus so not my monkeys.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| sickboy Deal or Croydon 17 Dec 19 11.08am |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
As I posted elsewhere Boris would make mincemeat of her at PMQs And then off for a consoling canoodle in his office after.
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| sickboy Deal or Croydon 17 Dec 19 11.10am |
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Originally posted by Matov
The next 5 years for Labour are not about the HoC. That battle is unwinnable. They need to regain their core support, just to survive. They won Putney and sacrificed Blythe Valley in the process. That is the rot they need to address. Nandy can stand up and declare herself a truly fresh pair of hands. She was vocal in decrying the insanity of the second referendum policy. And is not part of the rabid Trot element either. For me, she is a no-brainer but ultimately not my circus so not my monkeys. I think they should make use of Caroline Flint. Impressive lady.
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| Matov 17 Dec 19 11.11am |
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Originally posted by Willo
This could of course work against her.I think some influential figures in the Labour movement have asserted that Corbynism must outlive Corbyn and with the membership (Momentum) choosing the new leader it is the model of plausibility that Corbyn MK2 will be appointed. Absolutely. No doubts about it. Hence why Corbyn has not resigned. And proof if ever more was needed why Labour are so screwed at the moment. Only note of caution I would urge is that I tend to lean more towards the fact that Brexit was the biggest issue rather than Corbyn. And with Brexit out of the way, then a policy of offering a lot of free stuff might actually resonate. It only needs a 4% swing in the next election for the Tories to lose their majority. Hence why holding onto those Northern gains has to be the Tories priority. And to be fair to Johnson, of whom I am not the biggest fan, I thought his speech at the weekend was interesting for the way he thanked people for lending him their votes. Astute. Very astute. But we will see. Edited by Matov (17 Dec 2019 11.14am)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 17 Dec 19 11.36am |
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Originally posted by Matov
Absolutely. No doubts about it. Hence why Corbyn has not resigned. And proof if ever more was needed why Labour are so screwed at the moment. Only note of caution I would urge is that I tend to lean more towards the fact that Brexit was the biggest issue rather than Corbyn. And with Brexit out of the way, then a policy of offering a lot of free stuff might actually resonate. It only needs a 4% swing in the next election for the Tories to lose their majority. Hence why holding onto those Northern gains has to be the Tories priority. And to be fair to Johnson, of whom I am not the biggest fan, I thought his speech at the weekend was interesting for the way he thanked people for lending him their votes. Astute. Very astute. But we will see. Edited by Matov (17 Dec 2019 11.14am) Yep, but May’s speech on JAMs Just About Managing got people thinking as well. However, Johnson and Cummings are much smarter than an administrator running the country without an appreciation of any further dynamics. Wise post on the small 4% swing needed now brexit will be moving, plus the free stuff, and elections are mostly decided on effects on the wallet or overdrafts. Now the dust has settled you could be right, but if Johnson does a decent job, then, well..... Edited by Rudi Hedman (17 Dec 2019 11.38am)
COYP |
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| Matov 17 Dec 19 11.46am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Edited by Rudi Hedman (17 Dec 2019 11.38am)
And might well actually prove to be a good PM. He has got the top job now so all the naked ambition stuff might fade a little. Legacy is what counts now and his thoughts will all be now on re-election in 5 years time. But Labour are in so, so much trouble. Started years ago with UKIP eating into their tribal voting via the Euro elections. At the time, it was largly put down to a protest vote but the deeper issue was that the almost instinctive ticking of the Labour box was broken. Remember reading some research by Matthew Goodwin that found that once people who voted Labour due to it being a family tradition voted for somebody else, even the once, then they were far more likely to do so in the future. Once that bond had broken, it would never come back. Labour paid the ultimate price for that. The writing was on the wall in 2015 with the collapse in Scotland catastrophic for them and now...I think it is a definite possibility that Labour implodes. Ceases to exist as it is.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| buzby1 Devon 17 Dec 19 12.09pm |
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Rebecca Long-Bailey is the bookies favourite. God help Labour if she gets the leadership. Miserable Corbynite with a face like a dog's arse.
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| Matov 17 Dec 19 12.19pm |
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Originally posted by buzby1
Rebecca Long-Bailey is the bookies favourite. God help Labour if she gets the leadership. Miserable Corbynite with a face like a dog's arse.
There are rumours of a massive rebellion brewing amongst a certain segment of Labour MP's. If they are going to do it then now is the time they need to make it happen before this leadership election is allowed to take place. Labour could well be nothing more than history by this time next year. The choice for them is simple. Are they the party of Putney or the party of Blythe Valley? Because the only leadership contender I can see standing a chance of having both under the same umbrella is Nandy. The rest are far to close to SW15.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Midlands Eagle 17 Dec 19 1.15pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
I've just watched Daily Politics and the lefties there said that on the doorstep it was the Labour economic policies that turned many of their traditional voters away as they just didn't believe that Corbyn could achieve everything that he said he would without having to raise taxation significantly and they didn't intend to vote for someone who was going to make them poorer
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 17 Dec 19 1.31pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I've just watched Daily Politics and the lefties there said that on the doorstep it was the Labour economic policies that turned many of their traditional voters away as they just didn't believe that Corbyn could achieve everything that he said he would without having to raise taxation significantly and they didn't intend to vote for someone who was going to make them poorer Yes Jenny Chapman, former Darlington for Labour (or the constituents and not labour if that’s what you convince yourself only), said this and is backing Keir Starmer. She did so in the daily mirror. She and Matov might have a point, if Starmer can accept Brexit is happening and debate without trying to prevent it. She said two things. The leader doesn’t have to be a woman because that’s satisfying their own needs and not the electorate. (It should be best person anyway). And they don’t have to have a northern accent. Just someone who can assure them they’ll do whatever she said for them and their mortgage, pension and children. I think the point may have been pointed out that labour voters and those switching may not be on the breadline struggling stereotypes in social housing etc etc etc. Didn’t really watch it but caught bits.
COYP |
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| Matov 17 Dec 19 2.00pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I've just watched Daily Politics and the lefties there said that on the doorstep it was the Labour economic policies that turned many of their traditional voters away ... Accept polling released in the last couple of days (by I think Lord Ashcroft) contradicts that with Corbyn and Brexit by far the biggest deciders. Johnson has accepted that austerity is over and the books are still not balanced. The Left has won that argument. Yes, people might have scoffed at offers of free broadband and so on (and they were utterly ludicrous) but the truth is that Johnson is signaling the turn to Keynesian economics. Brexit and Corbyn are in many ways one and the same thing. I am tedious about it but in 2017, on the back of respecting the referendum vote, Labour did incredibly well. That was no fluke. Yes helped by a terrible campaign and May being May but still got the voters out. And in 2019, backing another referendum which they made no bones about in being heavily weighted in favour of Remain in a variety of ways get spanked. With Corbyn no longer seen as a man of principle, even if you loathed those principles. Be wary of this narrative proclaiming the problem was Labours economic policy. A lot of people want us to think it was, from across the political spectrum, but I struggle to see that.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Midlands Eagle 17 Dec 19 2.41pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Be wary of this narrative proclaiming the problem was Labours economic policy. A lot of people want us to think it was, from across the political spectrum, but I struggle to see that. It was actually Jenny Chapman a Labour MP until she lost her Darlington seat last week who said that
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| Matov 17 Dec 19 3.18pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
It was actually Jenny Chapman a Labour MP until she lost her Darlington seat last week who said that And the biggest champion of Kier Starmer, one of the key architects of Labours disastrous Second Referendum lunacy. The politiking never stops with these b******s. The polling shows that Labours economic policies come poor third in terms of why people did not vote for them, with I believe the starkest difference in those who had voted Labour before. Still formulating my own conclusion (and yes, that is as sad as it sounds) but increasingly thinking that we have a dodged a huge bullet. If Brexit was done, and Labour not only had a chance to do that but also rip the Tories into pieces at the same time, I have a horrible feeling that at some stage in 2020, a Corbyn led Labour Party might well have won an election. On a very similar economic programme.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 17 Dec 19 3.21pm |
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Originally posted by Ghostship
Interesting to see that of the candidates mentioned so far none of them are BAME which does surprise me as I thought the left wing cared more about them than white people. Are you nominating Diane Abacus? How about Stormzy? I'm sure he could get elected in Diane's seat if she 'retires' and we had a quick bi election.
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| Ghostship Norfolk 17 Dec 19 3.46pm |
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Diane Abbott as party leader would be comedy gold but I guess even the lefties aren't that stupid. Stormzy for minister of culture.
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