Heaven forbid that this little Eagle would ever question the sage advice and veracity of Roy's decision making. I love Croydon Roy.

however,
does anybody else feel that Roy's reluctance to bring on Subs before the 89th minute is note-worthy ? and that tired legs must surely hurt our performances ? especially for any older players.

Forget about wages, for a second. Footballers want game-time. If i was offered to sit on the bench under Roy or some other Prem club....i would seriously consider the other options. You need opportunities to prove you can excel at the highest level. And if i saw some Donkey getting more game-time than myself, i would be furious. Many of us will now agree that Speroni was a better 'keeper than his predecessor. We could have nearly lost him, due to lack of games.

or perhaps there is a yawning gap in quality between our starting 11 and the rest of the squad ? Or is it about players all being on each others wavelength ?

anybody got the statistics for our average performances in the final 25 minutes ?

of course, tactical decisions are massively influenced by whether we are winning , losing or drawing....at the time. And also influenced by the stature of our opposition and whether we are playing at home or away.

i will confess to being sometimes horrified at our options on the bench.....remember Benteke anybody ? or Luka ?

What are your thoughts ? In your discussion, please give reference to other clubs, managers, countries, & leagues.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (27 Aug 2023 7.02pm)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

Hodgson has brought on 4 subs this season - 2 in each of the last two games: Ahamada in 74th and 71st minutes; Rak-Sakyi in 83rd minute; Mateta in 71st. These are hardly 89th minute subs.

The issue of using subs is surely about:
1. Whether the game situation requires subs (think the unnecessary subs Vieira made against Arsenal and Brentford that resulted in their equalizers when we had been in control of the games)
2. whether you have people on the bench who you think might change the game for you.

I think the one thing we can take from the first three games is that Roy has some faith in Ahamada. He's clearly never rated Mateta. I get the feeling he doesn't trust JRS to do his defensive duties so we may only see him when either we're chasing a game in the final minutes, or if we have a comfortable lead.

Another factor behind the lack of subs could be Roy making a point that we have an incredibly thin squad. You want him to make subs, then maybe give him some worth making.

I'll wait and see how Roy introduces Franca from the bench after his return to fitness. I presume Franca will start on the bench and be gradually introduced, but given Roy's previous history with late substitutions or none at all I wonder how much game time Franca will actually get.

I know that Roy's philosophy is that the eleven selected to start is the team he trusts to get a result. However, adding to that equation is the strength of the subs bench. And at the moment we are light on players that could make a difference.

Old, Ungifted and White

It isn’t just a case of Roy improving things simply by making substitutions in most games. Our bench can only bring fresh legs ,in other areas it can actually weaken us because the opposition have substitutes that really are class players that brought on make our subs more of a liability than improvement. If we had real quality on the bench it might be right to question their use , but at this moment in time nothing on our bench is a nailed on improvement that can’t be nullified by superior opposition benches.

the Bench Boys.....not the Beach Boys.

anyway, good commentary from everybody above. And of course any top 6 club has an amazing Bench.

now, help me to understand the Bench of the clubs in the bottom half of the table. Surely they face the same challenges as us ? talent, money, limited options etc....

Fresh legs ? Surely even Messi needs to come off the pitch after 75 minutes ?

Dodgy Legs ? surely Benteke & Luka didnt deserve to be in the starting line-up ?

tactics ? it was often said that Ole Gunnar Solskear was a better striker when he got to watch defenders for an hour, to figure them out.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

The difference in the teams at the bottom is that their benches are of the same standard as the team . Its why they are at the bottom . Teams like ours with better first elevens and weak squads are mid table , those with decent first elevens and good benches are top 10 , and so on until you end up at Manchester City whos 3rd best eleven would finnish in the top half never mind their 2nd who would finnish ,er, 2nd .

You make subs for one of two reasons - replace quality or improve physicality.

Let's play down the fresh legs piece a bit - they play 90 mins once a week. Many players in the league will be playing 90 mins twice a week plus European travel. They're incredibly fit - it isn't the 80s where players are walking around in the closing stages.

The bench is crap in terms of quality, as it was the last time Roy was here. Vieira had a comparatively blissful time in terms of depth. There's no-one on the bench currently who isn't a substantial downgrade on those on the pitch.

Compared to the end of last season, we've effectively swapped Lerma for Luka, and then lost McArthur, Butland, Zaha, Olise, Hughes from consideration. The bench is gone. We haven't replaced it, and a couple of injuries is all it takes to totally expose it.

26th January 2010 - Enter Administration
2nd May 2010 - D-Day 1 - Survival at Hillsborough
1st June 2010 - D-Day 2 - Survival at Lloyds
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bump.....bringing on players after 85 minutes.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford