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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Maine Eagle  USA 15 May 19 2.05pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
No, sorry Maine I’m not buying that. However detailed the instructions and wishes were there would still be problems because of some perceived political gain on one side or the other. You eliminate the problems in the planning. Every option would have inerrant approval of parliament already. Obviously there is no point doing this if it leads to another 3 years of failed negotiations and votes. Every single option on that ballot would be pre agreed with all parties, including the EU, so there is no bulls*** once the vote happens. There are legal mechanisms to ensure whatever is picked has a smooth route to implementation. That was the failure of 2016 - no route to implementation.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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Teddy Eagle  15 May 19 2.09pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
You eliminate the problems in the planning. Every option would have inerrant approval of parliament already. Obviously there is no point doing this if it leads to another 3 years of failed negotiations and votes. Every single option on that ballot would be pre agreed with all parties, including the EU, so there is no bulls*** once the vote happens. There are legal mechanisms to ensure whatever is picked has a smooth route to implementation. That was the failure of 2016 - no route to implementation. But they haven’t been able to agree anything in three years and now they can agree several options at once? Not likely.
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| Maine Eagle USA 15 May 19 2.18pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
But they haven’t been able to agree anything in three years and now they can agree several options at once? Not likely. As Starmer said, there needs to be a confirmatory vote. MPs are looking to give the final decision to the electorate. MPs in parliament can craft the second vote exactly as I said because just because you agree to legislate that a vote for a no deal exit will have a route to implementation, doesn’t mean it will definitely happen. You are just agreeing that if it is picked, it will have a route to implementation. Every leave or remain MP has stated quite openly that a confirmatory vote would lead to one final resolution, if it’s what they want, or not. They are not “agreeing several options” they are agreeing to honor a second vote, where one of those several options will actually be selected. Either way, if the second vote cannot be crafted in this way, to have clear routes to implementation, then it has no value at all. If that is the case then who knows what the final resolution will be.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| Teddy Eagle 15 May 19 2.25pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
As Starmer said, there needs to be a confirmatory vote. MPs are looking to give the final decision to the electorate. MPs in parliament can craft the second vote exactly as I said because just because you agree to legislate that a vote for a no deal exit will have a route to implementation, doesn’t mean it will definitely happen. You are just agreeing that if it is picked, it will have a route to implementation. Every leave or remain MP has stated quite openly that a confirmatory vote would lead to one final resolution, if it’s what they want, or not. They are not “agreeing several options” they are agreeing to honor a second vote, where one of those several options will actually be selected. Either way, if the second vote cannot be crafted in this way, to have clear routes to implementation, then it has no value at all. If that is the case then who knows what the final resolution will be. But that won’t be the end because Remainers will point to the results of the split Leave vote and claim more people didn’t vote for that option than did. So the whole thing will stall again. If you believe MPs would honour the vote you have more faith in them than me.
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| W12 15 May 19 2.27pm | |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
As Starmer said, there needs to be a confirmatory vote. MPs are looking to give the final decision to the electorate. MPs in parliament can craft the second vote exactly as I said because just because you agree to legislate that a vote for a no deal exit will have a route to implementation, doesn’t mean it will definitely happen. You are just agreeing that if it is picked, it will have a route to implementation. Every leave or remain MP has stated quite openly that a confirmatory vote would lead to one final resolution, if it’s what they want, or not. They are not “agreeing several options” they are agreeing to honor a second vote, where one of those several options will actually be selected. Either way, if the second vote cannot be crafted in this way, to have clear routes to implementation, then it has no value at all. If that is the case then who knows what the final resolution will be. None of your logic appears to make any sense Peter Pan, but the remain "offer" appears to be two versions of remain - May's deal (or even worse permanent customs union) or remain. How can you possibly square that with the referendum result, because unlike most in the Westminster bubble like to assume, people really are not that stupid.
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| Maine Eagle USA 15 May 19 2.46pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
But that won’t be the end because Remainers will point to the results of the split Leave vote and claim more people didn’t vote for that option than did. So the whole thing will stall again. If you believe MPs would honour the vote you have more faith in them than me. Teddy, trying to stay with you here but struggling. Not sure what you mean. Votes have numbers attached to them, you know, like: No deal 7.57 million (dont get angry, just using some fake numbers to make a point) etc etc. So nobody can claim there was more votes for one option than the other, as the votes will be counted and publicly shown, mate.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| Maine Eagle USA 15 May 19 2.48pm |
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Originally posted by W12
None of your logic appears to make any sense Peter Pan, but the remain "offer" appears to be two versions of remain - May's deal (or even worse permanent customs union) or remain. How can you possibly square that with the referendum result, because unlike most in the Westminster bubble like to assume, people really are not that stupid. If you feel that way, tinkerbell, then more power to you. One thing is pretty clear; in the 3 years since the vote, we have moved precisely zero percent closer to delivering anything. I am not trying to "square anything" with the referendum result, I think you are not getting what I am saying. I am saying the 2016 referendum result was a road to nowhere (evidenced by the fact that in 3 years we have gone..........nowhere) and a new vote is needed, to deliver a road to.......somewhere.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| Teddy Eagle 15 May 19 2.53pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Teddy, trying to stay with you here but struggling. Not sure what you mean. Votes have numbers attached to them, you know, like: No deal 7.57 million (dont get angry, just using some fake numbers to make a point) etc etc. So nobody can claim there was more votes for one option than the other, as the votes will be counted and publicly shown, mate. OK, using your example if 7.57m voted for No Deal then 18.3m didn’t. The Remain camp would point to the majority not voting for whichever option.
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| Maine Eagle USA 15 May 19 3.06pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
OK, using your example if 7.57m voted for No Deal then 18.3m didn’t. The Remain camp would point to the majority not voting for whichever option. Ah now I get you, you mean how would the votes be counted etc. A choice would be made on what voting mechanism to utilize. You cannot expect majorities with 3 options or more, generally speaking. So you either go first past the post - winner takes all, or some type of "instant run off" or "alternative vote" whereby voters rank the options in order of preference, 1, 2, 3 etc. Votes are initially counted for each voter's first preference. If an option has more than half of the vote based on first preferences, that option carries. If not, then the option with the fewest votes is eliminated. The voters who selected the eliminated option as a first preference would then have their votes added to the totals of their second preference, and so on. The process continues until 1 option has a majority. That method is used in various countries for elections, and is actually how members of congress are elected in the great state of Maine. Not perfect but this is Brexit. It is not a binary choice of in or out, its more complicated than that. Edited by Maine Eagle (15 May 2019 3.08pm)
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 15 May 19 3.10pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Ah now I get you, you mean how would the votes be counted etc. A choice would be made on what voting mechanism to utilize. You cannot expect majorities with 3 options or more, generally speaking. So you either go first past the post - winner takes all, or some type of "instant run off" or "alternative vote" whereby voters rank the options in order of preference, 1, 2, 3 etc. Votes are initially counted for each voter's first preference. If an option has more than half of the vote based on first preferences, that option carries. If not, then the option with the fewest votes is eliminated. The voters who selected the eliminated option as a first preference would then have their votes added to the totals of their second preference, and so on. The process continues until 1 option has a majority. That method is used in various countries for elections. Not perfect but this is Brexit. It is not a binary choice of in or out, its more complicated than that. LOL & you said that people were too f***ing dumb to understand the first vote? Have a day off yoi'd need a degree in mathematical science to understand yours.
Pro USA & Israel |
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| Maine Eagle USA 15 May 19 3.19pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
LOL & you said that people were too f***ing dumb to understand the first vote? Have a day off yoi'd need a degree in mathematical science to understand yours. If thats too complicated, then winner takes all is kinda simple eh (most votes wins). However even someone pretty f***ing dumb, Jimenez, can rank options in order of preference. Even a complete raving f***ing imbecile, can do that, cant they? Here is an example, where 1 is your first choice, and you find 5 the least desirable: 1 Having your nuts sanded down with 40 grit sandpaper And so on... As I said, it aint perfect, but Brexit is a bit more complicated than in or out, as you may have noticed in the last 3 years.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| W12 15 May 19 3.22pm | |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
If you feel that way, tinkerbell, then more power to you. One thing is pretty clear; in the 3 years since the vote, we have moved precisely zero percent closer to delivering anything. I am not trying to "square anything" with the referendum result, I think you are not getting what I am saying. I am saying the 2016 referendum result was a road to nowhere (evidenced by the fact that in 3 years we have gone..........nowhere) and a new vote is needed, to deliver a road to.......somewhere. No, we clearly could have left on the 29th. You are saying that the evidence that we cannot or should not leave is because we haven't left yet rather than the fact that parliament will simply not allow it at any cost? Because remainers are so much more cleverer than us leaverers.
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| DANGERCLOSE London 15 May 19 3.50pm |
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[Tweet Link]
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 SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 15 May 19 4.58pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
LOL & you said that people were too f***ing dumb to understand the first vote? Have a day off yoi'd need a degree in mathematical science to understand yours. No you don't. You just need a brain, of which you appear to be sadly lacking. Also how is this kind of dross any different from PP?
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 15 May 19 5.00pm |
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Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE
[Tweet Link]Yawn. Talk to me when it reaches 18 million
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Maine Eagle USA 15 May 19 5.07pm |
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Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE
[Tweet Link]Wow. 100k people. So many....such an achievement. LMAO.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| furrybloke Hemel Hempstead 15 May 19 5.09pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
If thats too complicated, then winner takes all is kinda simple eh (most votes wins). However even someone pretty f***ing dumb, Jimenez, can rank options in order of preference. Even a complete raving f***ing imbecile, can do that, cant they? Here is an example, where 1 is your first choice, and you find 5 the least desirable: 1 Having your nuts sanded down with 40 grit sandpaper And so on... As I said, it aint perfect, but Brexit is a bit more complicated than in or out, as you may have noticed in the last 3 years. 1 Listening to Janet Street-Porter sing jazz classics
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 15 May 19 5.16pm |
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Originally posted by furrybloke
1 Listening to Janet Street-Porter sing jazz classics I salute your infinitely superior brain power / 'degree in mathematical science' Edited by SW19 CPFC (15 May 2019 5.18pm)
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Maine Eagle USA 15 May 19 5.16pm |
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Originally posted by W12
No, we clearly could have left on the 29th. You are saying that the evidence that we cannot or should not leave is because we haven't left yet rather than the fact that parliament will simply not allow it at any cost? Because remainers are so much more cleverer than us leaverers. Then why didnt we? There is no agreement on how to leave the EU. That needs to be agreed in a second vote.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| Teddy Eagle 15 May 19 5.21pm |
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Hmmm...the same membership as the Lib Dems and not far off the SNP number.
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