Israel / Palestine
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 matt_himself  Matataland 13 Aug 14 11.21am |
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Quote legaleagle at 13 Aug 2014 9.13am
Thank you very much indeed for your kind words. You have completely missed the context in which I was posting. If you actually take the trouble to read the thread over the past two weeks, you will see I have been very critical indeed of HAMAS, its Charter and its own disinclination to seek any long-term accommodation with Israel. There is, quite separate to that, a legitimate discussion to be had about internal politics in Israel (about which no doubt you are an expert) ,the stance of Likud about moving towards towards a two state solution over many years and the difficulties in getting their voting constituency behind any such move at the present time. Those who think HAMAS are the only barrier to an effective solution of the present mess are, in my opinion, as "tunnel visioned" (no pun intended) as those (whom I frequently criticise)who seek to cast the Israeli government as the sole evil in the equation.
Edited by legaleagle (13 Aug 2014 9.22am)
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| ghosteagle 13 Aug 14 11.58am |
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Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 9.01am
Quote legaleagle at 09 Aug 2014 11.58am
Agree re not being strong enough in "conventional" military terms to directly challenge Israel in 10 years, but 10 years of mobilising for effective "guerrilla warfare" inside the 1967 boundaries coming from Gaza and the West Bank could be a game changer. viz how effective a force Hezbollah became in Lebanon.. The problem is how would a short-termist right wing government in Israel (would that the Labour Party was in power) sell it to their constituency, having so successfully sought to ramp up public opinion for political ends to date. Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.00pm) Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.07pm)
The 'problem' as you put it is not a 'short termist right wing government in Israel [sic]' selling the Hamas truce to its own people, the problem is that the Hamas 'truce' is bulls***. We have been here before. Many times. Until Hamas starts behaving like a government and treating its own people as people and not human shields/publicity items, it can go f*** itself and expect to be battered by Israel. I don't get this. As i understood it, Hamas provides medical and social services, has been voted in, and fulfills the function of government within Gaza.
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Aug 14 5.13pm |
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Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 11.58am
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 9.01am
Quote legaleagle at 09 Aug 2014 11.58am
Agree re not being strong enough in "conventional" military terms to directly challenge Israel in 10 years, but 10 years of mobilising for effective "guerrilla warfare" inside the 1967 boundaries coming from Gaza and the West Bank could be a game changer. viz how effective a force Hezbollah became in Lebanon.. The problem is how would a short-termist right wing government in Israel (would that the Labour Party was in power) sell it to their constituency, having so successfully sought to ramp up public opinion for political ends to date. Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.00pm) Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.07pm)
The 'problem' as you put it is not a 'short termist right wing government in Israel [sic]' selling the Hamas truce to its own people, the problem is that the Hamas 'truce' is bulls***. We have been here before. Many times. Until Hamas starts behaving like a government and treating its own people as people and not human shields/publicity items, it can go f*** itself and expect to be battered by Israel. I don't get this. As i understood it, Hamas provides medical and social services, has been voted in, and fulfills the function of government within Gaza.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| ghosteagle 13 Aug 14 5.26pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 5.13pm
Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 11.58am
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 9.01am
Quote legaleagle at 09 Aug 2014 11.58am
Agree re not being strong enough in "conventional" military terms to directly challenge Israel in 10 years, but 10 years of mobilising for effective "guerrilla warfare" inside the 1967 boundaries coming from Gaza and the West Bank could be a game changer. viz how effective a force Hezbollah became in Lebanon.. The problem is how would a short-termist right wing government in Israel (would that the Labour Party was in power) sell it to their constituency, having so successfully sought to ramp up public opinion for political ends to date. Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.00pm) Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.07pm)
The 'problem' as you put it is not a 'short termist right wing government in Israel [sic]' selling the Hamas truce to its own people, the problem is that the Hamas 'truce' is bulls***. We have been here before. Many times. Until Hamas starts behaving like a government and treating its own people as people and not human shields/publicity items, it can go f*** itself and expect to be battered by Israel. I don't get this. As i understood it, Hamas provides medical and social services, has been voted in, and fulfills the function of government within Gaza.
The human shields stories have been debunked. I think that Israel has provided the provocation by stealing the Palestinian lands. Your logic would lead to the Palestinians ending all resistance to the Israeli occupation and then gratefully accepting whatever scraps Israel was generous enough to throw their way.
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Aug 14 6.11pm |
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Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 5.26pm
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 5.13pm
Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 11.58am
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 9.01am
Quote legaleagle at 09 Aug 2014 11.58am
Agree re not being strong enough in "conventional" military terms to directly challenge Israel in 10 years, but 10 years of mobilising for effective "guerrilla warfare" inside the 1967 boundaries coming from Gaza and the West Bank could be a game changer. viz how effective a force Hezbollah became in Lebanon.. The problem is how would a short-termist right wing government in Israel (would that the Labour Party was in power) sell it to their constituency, having so successfully sought to ramp up public opinion for political ends to date. Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.00pm) Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.07pm)
The 'problem' as you put it is not a 'short termist right wing government in Israel [sic]' selling the Hamas truce to its own people, the problem is that the Hamas 'truce' is bulls***. We have been here before. Many times. Until Hamas starts behaving like a government and treating its own people as people and not human shields/publicity items, it can go f*** itself and expect to be battered by Israel. I don't get this. As i understood it, Hamas provides medical and social services, has been voted in, and fulfills the function of government within Gaza.
The human shields stories have been debunked. I think that Israel has provided the provocation by stealing the Palestinian lands. Your logic would lead to the Palestinians ending all resistance to the Israeli occupation and then gratefully accepting whatever scraps Israel was generous enough to throw their way.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Aug 14 6.15pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 5.13pm
Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 11.58am
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 9.01am
Quote legaleagle at 09 Aug 2014 11.58am
Agree re not being strong enough in "conventional" military terms to directly challenge Israel in 10 years, but 10 years of mobilising for effective "guerrilla warfare" inside the 1967 boundaries coming from Gaza and the West Bank could be a game changer. viz how effective a force Hezbollah became in Lebanon.. The problem is how would a short-termist right wing government in Israel (would that the Labour Party was in power) sell it to their constituency, having so successfully sought to ramp up public opinion for political ends to date. Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.00pm) Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.07pm)
The 'problem' as you put it is not a 'short termist right wing government in Israel [sic]' selling the Hamas truce to its own people, the problem is that the Hamas 'truce' is bulls***. We have been here before. Many times. Until Hamas starts behaving like a government and treating its own people as people and not human shields/publicity items, it can go f*** itself and expect to be battered by Israel. I don't get this. As i understood it, Hamas provides medical and social services, has been voted in, and fulfills the function of government within Gaza.
The Al-Quassm martyr brigades are a faction of Hamas, but they aren't Hamas (they're independent of the Political Councils and Welfare).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| ghosteagle 13 Aug 14 6.15pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 6.11pm
Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 5.26pm
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 5.13pm
Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 11.58am
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 9.01am
Quote legaleagle at 09 Aug 2014 11.58am
Agree re not being strong enough in "conventional" military terms to directly challenge Israel in 10 years, but 10 years of mobilising for effective "guerrilla warfare" inside the 1967 boundaries coming from Gaza and the West Bank could be a game changer. viz how effective a force Hezbollah became in Lebanon.. The problem is how would a short-termist right wing government in Israel (would that the Labour Party was in power) sell it to their constituency, having so successfully sought to ramp up public opinion for political ends to date. Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.00pm) Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.07pm)
The 'problem' as you put it is not a 'short termist right wing government in Israel [sic]' selling the Hamas truce to its own people, the problem is that the Hamas 'truce' is bulls***. We have been here before. Many times. Until Hamas starts behaving like a government and treating its own people as people and not human shields/publicity items, it can go f*** itself and expect to be battered by Israel. I don't get this. As i understood it, Hamas provides medical and social services, has been voted in, and fulfills the function of government within Gaza.
The human shields stories have been debunked. I think that Israel has provided the provocation by stealing the Palestinian lands. Your logic would lead to the Palestinians ending all resistance to the Israeli occupation and then gratefully accepting whatever scraps Israel was generous enough to throw their way.
When you say 'credible' what you mean is submissive. Israel has provided the provocation by stealing the Palestinian lands. They are prepared to negotiate with Israel, but Israel has never entered negotiations with the Palestinians with any intention of returning their stolen land or allowing them to create a viable state.
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Aug 14 6.17pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2014 6.15pm
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 5.13pm
Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 11.58am
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 9.01am
Quote legaleagle at 09 Aug 2014 11.58am
Agree re not being strong enough in "conventional" military terms to directly challenge Israel in 10 years, but 10 years of mobilising for effective "guerrilla warfare" inside the 1967 boundaries coming from Gaza and the West Bank could be a game changer. viz how effective a force Hezbollah became in Lebanon.. The problem is how would a short-termist right wing government in Israel (would that the Labour Party was in power) sell it to their constituency, having so successfully sought to ramp up public opinion for political ends to date. Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.00pm) Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.07pm)
The 'problem' as you put it is not a 'short termist right wing government in Israel [sic]' selling the Hamas truce to its own people, the problem is that the Hamas 'truce' is bulls***. We have been here before. Many times. Until Hamas starts behaving like a government and treating its own people as people and not human shields/publicity items, it can go f*** itself and expect to be battered by Israel. I don't get this. As i understood it, Hamas provides medical and social services, has been voted in, and fulfills the function of government within Gaza.
The Al-Quassm martyr brigades are a faction of Hamas, but they aren't Hamas (they're independent of the Political Councils and Welfare).
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| ghosteagle 13 Aug 14 6.20pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 6.17pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2014 6.15pm
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 5.13pm
Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 11.58am
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 9.01am
Quote legaleagle at 09 Aug 2014 11.58am
Agree re not being strong enough in "conventional" military terms to directly challenge Israel in 10 years, but 10 years of mobilising for effective "guerrilla warfare" inside the 1967 boundaries coming from Gaza and the West Bank could be a game changer. viz how effective a force Hezbollah became in Lebanon.. The problem is how would a short-termist right wing government in Israel (would that the Labour Party was in power) sell it to their constituency, having so successfully sought to ramp up public opinion for political ends to date. Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.00pm) Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.07pm)
The 'problem' as you put it is not a 'short termist right wing government in Israel [sic]' selling the Hamas truce to its own people, the problem is that the Hamas 'truce' is bulls***. We have been here before. Many times. Until Hamas starts behaving like a government and treating its own people as people and not human shields/publicity items, it can go f*** itself and expect to be battered by Israel. I don't get this. As i understood it, Hamas provides medical and social services, has been voted in, and fulfills the function of government within Gaza.
The Al-Quassm martyr brigades are a faction of Hamas, but they aren't Hamas (they're independent of the Political Councils and Welfare).
Very interesting article. Especially the conclusion - The verdict Hamas has made no secret of its policy of encouraging civilians to face down Israeli attacks “with their bare chests”. But we don’t know how many people have followed this advice, so it’s difficult to say how far Hamas can be blamed for the civilian deaths. We do know that rockets have been stored in UN-run schools, which may or may not add credibility to Israel’s broader claims that Hamas has a habit of operating in civilian areas. Even if all these things turn out to be true, they may not exonerate Israel from the accusation of war crimes being levelled by the UN’s human rights chief Navi Pillay. Israel’s conduct could still be found to be “indiscriminate” or “disproportionate” if it led to excessive civilian casualties or failed to distinguish between military and civilian targets, regardless of the behaviour of Hamas.
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| Stirlingsays 13 Aug 14 6.27pm |
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Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 6.20pm
Very interesting article. Especially the conclusion - The verdict Hamas has made no secret of its policy of encouraging civilians to face down Israeli attacks “with their bare chests”.
The truth is you have been proven wrong and have just resorted to playing with words.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| ghosteagle 13 Aug 14 6.29pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 13 Aug 2014 6.27pm
Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 6.20pm
Very interesting article. Especially the conclusion - The verdict Hamas has made no secret of its policy of encouraging civilians to face down Israeli attacks “with their bare chests”.
The truth is you have been proven wrong and have just resorted to playing with words. They have. The claims that Hamas was forcibly using civilians as human shields has been completely debunked. It is the supporters of the Israeli occupation who are playing semantics.
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Aug 14 6.31pm |
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Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 6.15pm
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 6.11pm
Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 5.26pm
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 5.13pm
Quote ghosteagle at 13 Aug 2014 11.58am
Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2014 9.01am
Quote legaleagle at 09 Aug 2014 11.58am
Agree re not being strong enough in "conventional" military terms to directly challenge Israel in 10 years, but 10 years of mobilising for effective "guerrilla warfare" inside the 1967 boundaries coming from Gaza and the West Bank could be a game changer. viz how effective a force Hezbollah became in Lebanon.. The problem is how would a short-termist right wing government in Israel (would that the Labour Party was in power) sell it to their constituency, having so successfully sought to ramp up public opinion for political ends to date. Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.00pm) Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 12.07pm)
The 'problem' as you put it is not a 'short termist right wing government in Israel [sic]' selling the Hamas truce to its own people, the problem is that the Hamas 'truce' is bulls***. We have been here before. Many times. Until Hamas starts behaving like a government and treating its own people as people and not human shields/publicity items, it can go f*** itself and expect to be battered by Israel. I don't get this. As i understood it, Hamas provides medical and social services, has been voted in, and fulfills the function of government within Gaza.
The human shields stories have been debunked. I think that Israel has provided the provocation by stealing the Palestinian lands. Your logic would lead to the Palestinians ending all resistance to the Israeli occupation and then gratefully accepting whatever scraps Israel was generous enough to throw their way.
When you say 'credible' what you mean is submissive. Israel has provided the provocation by stealing the Palestinian lands. They are prepared to negotiate with Israel, but Israel has never entered negotiations with the Palestinians with any intention of returning their stolen land or allowing them to create a viable state.
A credible government is one who gives concessions in negotiations. It is one who puts its people first, not its own power. Hamas is bad for Palestine and the Palestinian people. Israel has been close to a two state solution. Look at Camp David talks. Also, did Israel steal land from the Palestinians or was the West Bank previously Jordanian territory lost in the 1967 war? I would argue that Israel has not stolen the West Bank from Palestinians but is in non compliance of a UN resolution. Although, I am sure that is wrong in your eyes, somehow.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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