The problem is there are some tories just loopy enough to actually do it.

That means it needs to be guarded against, regardless of the position it gives in negotiations.

A worker's strike is a known quantity, a no deal crash out of the EU, overnight tearing up every single trade agreement and plunging Ireland into chaos is not exactly equatable to a strike.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

a)Only those with the EU - all the non-EU countries with whom we trade have said they are prepared to 'roll-over' any agreements with them made via the EU

b) the EU has already done an about-face on this and agreed that it can all be done with a hard border via electronic means - which was what was suggested to them allalong and which the EU refused to accept.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

3,500,000 people in London have risen to the challenge.

The media is full of stories about Brits who have married foreigners who have subsequently been denied visas to come over and live in the UK but I can't find any stats about Brits who find love overseas and settle over there with their new partner

Free movement within the EU is obviously another matter. One that is at the heart of the Brexit debate for many people. I agree that it is something that whatever happens this is an issue that won't go away and new arrangements are essential. My own hope is that we retain some kind of associate membership, especially economically, but with movement of people subject to a degree of control and dependent on our need. That's why we need a deal.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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No deal is a guarantee of violence in Ireland.

Is that a price worth paying for your precious Brexit?

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

So the Irish government gets to decide how we run this country?

No one wants to see a return to violence but neither do we want what you are proposing. We spent 30 plus years fighting terrorists who wished to make political decisions against the democratic majority.

Governments outside the UK don't get a vote on our politics.

This situation was caused by the Irish government who allowed the EU to use the border as a bargaining chip rather than telling the EU to back off. For the umpteenth time the EU has already said that in the event of a no deal Brexit there will not be a hard border and they will control it by electronic means which is what the ERG has previously proposed.

The Irish PM is interfering in internal UK party politics.

One more point

I cannot see the EU ever agreeing to a deal that does not include free movement. Do you agree that it is outrageous that it is far more difficult/expensive for a UK national to bring in a spouse than an EU national who has no/very little ties to the UK.

Not if we stay as full members, although how long the EU can maintain the principle of free movement has to be in doubt.

My hope is for a deal which gives us some degree of control over who enters whilst retaining as many of the free market benefits as possible. Which seems to me what is on offer. As I think the alleged benefits of us negotiating our own trade deals are a jam tomorrow myth being used as a smokescreen by the hard Brexiteers I hope that realism will prevail and some kind of notional "modifications" dressed up as a renegotiated deal will be agreed.

I can understand why, as members, we allow the free movement of every EU citizen without cost.

I can also understand why the UK government make it so bloody difficult and expensive for family members from outside the EU to enter. I don't think that it is aimed at new spouses of those who are British by birth. I think it is aimed at those who have achieved British citizenship, particularly from the Indian sub continent, who want to bring in often large families. Of course I would like to see it made easier and cheaper for people like you and me but as the law would not permit that, we have no choice than to accept it. I could fill a book with all the issues I have encountered, many of them totally ridiculous and overturned on appeal or in Court. It all takes time and a lot of effort. The Home Office still owe me £80 for a processing charge that was supposed to be returned after I won a case against them!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Have you done it? I have and I know just how difficult and damn expensive it is. How others have both managed and afforded it is another question entirely. I don't know but I wonder if there are "experts" in their communities helping them and community fund raising to help them afford it. To do it on your own is hugely demanding for someone born and raised here so how much more so for anyone relatively new. The English language tests demanded of the applicant are challenging too.

I suppose it depends who you talk to in Newham as to what answer you would get. If it was you I would know what to expect.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.