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June 1 2024 8.36am

Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 08 Mar 22 7.38pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by eagleman13

Falling on deaf ears 'coops, certain posters will always find a way to push their own agenda regardless of what's happening in the world, whether it's a war or pandemic, politics must win out.

Seems less reporting on peace terms or pressure for actual peace acceptance and rather lots of ra ra war and justifying actions.

Governments who talked up covid play down nuclear war.

I'm living in an idiocracy.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2022 7.40pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 08 Mar 22 8.02pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Apparently we opened and then closed a Visa office in Calais although not helpful I can understand the logic. The government is concerned that other migrants will simply claim they are from the Ukraine and clog up the system.

During the Yugoslav civil war most people who claimed to be Bosnian victim refugees were actually Serbs, same with Zimbabwe they were mainly the ones doing the oppressing.

Anyway the government needs to get it's act together.

Haven’t heard about a visa office in Calais but we did have BF Officers base there.
Albanians claiming to be Kosovans. Further back Nigerians claiming to be Liberians. Without documentation we have to prove who they are and where they are from. In most cases nearly impossible.
Not necessarily the Govvernments fault, think HR Act to start, then you have the lawyers and do-gooders, who feel anyone should be here. If no checks, no way of weeding out potential terrorists, paedos etc


Edited by Spiderman (08 Mar 2022 8.02pm)

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 08 Mar 22 8.04pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I see both the Premier League and the FA have suspended their contracts in Russia with immediate effect.

I can see why they have done it, no-one wants to be showing Putin an inch of support, but I wonder if it's actually wise?

Surely the players could wear messages on their shirts and pictures of the devastation shown on the big screens during breaks in play and before, at half and full time. Showing even a bit of reality makes sense.

Doubtless it would be taken off-air by the Russians, but then it would cause questions to be asked. Best they feel the heat, not us.

What do others think?

I tend to agree with this.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 08 Mar 22 8.15pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Russia's peace requirements don't look so bad imho.

Obviously subject to all sorts of things not least whether they actually mean and would implement them.

Ukraine to be independent and neutral e.g. no Nato membership.

The Crimea, the new pro-Russian republics to belong to Russia.

Russia's face has to be saved somehow, the reality is that it is a major world power.

This is roughly where we were before the disastrous decision to invade.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 08 Mar 22 8.31pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I see both the Premier League and the FA have suspended their contracts in Russia with immediate effect.

I can see why they have done it, no-one wants to be showing Putin an inch of support, but I wonder if it's actually wise?

Surely the players could wear messages on their shirts and pictures of the devastation shown on the big screens during breaks in play and before, at half and full time. Showing even a bit of reality makes sense.

Doubtless it would be taken off-air by the Russians, but then it would cause questions to be asked. Best they feel the heat, not us.

What do others think?

I too agree that shutting out sportsmen and women isn't helpful. I'm less optimistic about the idea that they would attempt to get an anti war message through though. For one there is an almost total shutout of truthful news on the war in Russia which to an extent will influence perception, and secondly it's clear that even oligarchs are very careful with their words right now. I genuinely think, with Putin where he is right now, that it would be entirely unsafe for any team member stating or sporting an anti war message to return to Russia.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 08 Mar 22 8.46pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Russia's peace requirements don't look so bad imho.

Obviously subject to all sorts of things not least whether they actually mean and would implement them.

Ukraine to be independent and neutral e.g. no Nato membership.

The Crimea, the new pro-Russian republics to belong to Russia.

Russia's face has to be saved somehow, the reality is that it is a major world power.

This is roughly where we were before the disastrous decision to invade.

Ukraine IS independent and neutral. It isn't a member of Nato.

Crimea and the disputed eastern regions were already occupied and effectively controlled by Russia.

So why did he invade? There's much more behind this than simply the stated aims. I think he wants Nato to climb down, which would be a disaster for all of Eastern Europe, and not actually feasible by the terms of their membership.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 08 Mar 22 8.51pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Russia's peace requirements don't look so bad imho.

Obviously subject to all sorts of things not least whether they actually mean and would implement them.

Ukraine to be independent and neutral e.g. no Nato membership.

The Crimea, the new pro-Russian republics to belong to Russia.

Russia's face has to be saved somehow, the reality is that it is a major world power.

This is roughly where we were before the disastrous decision to invade.

I tend to agree with this. There has to be a valid option for the Russians to come out of this with something. Putin cannot be seen to lose completely, rather akin to what happened with the Cuban missile crisis.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 08 Mar 22 8.53pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Ukraine IS independent and neutral. It isn't a member of Nato.

Crimea and the disputed eastern regions were already occupied and effectively controlled by Russia.

So why did he invade? There's much more behind this than simply the stated aims. I think he wants Nato to climb down, which would be a disaster for all of Eastern Europe, and not actually feasible by the terms of their membership.

Could ukraine not have a protected status away from the areas putin wants. No nato on a guarantee of peace, but nato will intervene in future. At least weapons won't be positioned next door to Russia and that appears to be putins gripe with nato.
Simple reasoning but need to start somewhere I guess.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 08 Mar 22 9.07pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Could ukraine not have a protected status away from the areas putin wants. No nato on a guarantee of peace, but nato will intervene in future. At least weapons won't be positioned next door to Russia and that appears to be putins gripe with nato.
Simple reasoning but need to start somewhere I guess.

I did suggest a demilitarised zone along the whole of the eastern border, extending an equal distance both east and west, monitored by inspectors.

I see no reason why Nato would object as they would still be able to deploy missile defence systems and for the eastern states not having masses of hardware as neighbours reassuring.

 


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BlueJay Flag UK 08 Mar 22 10.15pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I did suggest a demilitarised zone along the whole of the eastern border, extending an equal distance both east and west, monitored by inspectors.

I see no reason why Nato would object as they would still be able to deploy missile defence systems and for the eastern states not having masses of hardware as neighbours reassuring.

Yes, I think this, and rowing back on sanctions is about as good as it's going to get for Putin. The bombing of civilians and threat of nuclear war cannot be deemed to have rewarded him with some kind of prize, else it will be a pattern repeated. I would love to know what kind of discussions are happening around Putin, and where they might lead.

edit: I should rephrase that really. It shouldn't be allowed to look like a 'reward' by any reasonable measure. If there is some token aspect or location that Putin can be gifted to herald as success at home (since he controls almost all Russian media) then that might work well. That and the lifting of most sanctions once something is agreed. But there need to be firm lines beyond that and no ambiguity as he where the red lines are.

Edited by BlueJay (08 Mar 2022 10.28pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 08 Mar 22 10.25pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Academic Agent leads a discussion on the threat of being virtue signaled into a war with Russia.

[Link]

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 08 Mar 22 10.47pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

The idea of winning some kind of morality tale with Putin as being more important than risking the deaths of tens of millions of people and sending humanity back to the dark ages is mind blowing.

The whole point of nuclear weapons is to avoid direct military conflict between the nations with them. It can't be any clearer.

I say support the Ukrainians in their struggle but we need to maintain a sense of proportion of risk on the stakes involved. There are multiple actors pushing the west into madness.

The rules are clear, an attack on Nato is war and that's the point at which nuclear war is risked....not before.

The best we can do is find the best peaceful solution possible, that will avoid the most death.

As for the bombing of civilians this has happened in every single case of cities being taken. Nato has been doing it themselves for decades of war in multiple theatres.....The Saudis do it every day in Yemen.

This has always been terrible and videos don't make it more so.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2022 10.47pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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