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steeleye20 Croydon 30 Aug 19 2.04pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Maybe, to some, but it doesn't stop me being right does it? That many here don't understand that we don't have a direct democracy in the UK but a Parliamentary one, is just very sad. It isn't though my fault. Hands off Wisbech !!!!!! Opponents must learn to do detail when engaging, abuse is no good to anybody.

steeleye20

Croydon 30 Aug 19 2.04pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Maybe, to some, but it doesn't stop me being right does it?

That many here don't understand that we don't have a direct democracy in the UK but a Parliamentary one, is just very sad. It isn't though my fault.

Hands off Wisbech !!!!!!

Opponents must learn to do detail when engaging, abuse is no good to anybody.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.04pm
Originally posted by the silurian 100% bulls*** fromm you again Soubry was not elected for the party she now belongs to, she was elected as a conservative and should therefore give up her seat and fight a by election, except shes not brave enough to do so...she was elected to represent her constituents which she clearly is not doing! MPS are not elected to represent Parties. They are elected to represent constituencies and ALL their constituents. For the umpteenth time we don't send delegates to Parliament. We send representatives. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.04pm

Originally posted by the silurian

100% bulls*** fromm you again
Soubry was not elected for the party she now belongs to, she was elected as a conservative and should therefore give up her seat and fight a by election, except shes not brave enough to do so...she was elected to represent her constituents which she clearly is not doing!

MPS are not elected to represent Parties. They are elected to represent constituencies and ALL their constituents. For the umpteenth time we don't send delegates to Parliament. We send representatives.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.08pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle That is your understanding of democracy and as everyone else reading this thread understands you are on your own on that one despite the fact that you've been banging on about it since the dawn of time. If we have a referendum then I expect my MP to carry out the result or else resign as I want an MP that represents his constituents and his party not some maverick that does as he pleases. It isn't though MY understanding of OUR democracy is it? It IS our system, whether you like it or not, or whether no-one else here believes me or not. You cannot change facts. You can expect your MP to do whatever you like but that doesn't mean they must or indeed ought to. Some may, others won't. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.08pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

That is your understanding of democracy and as everyone else reading this thread understands you are on your own on that one despite the fact that you've been banging on about it since the dawn of time.

If we have a referendum then I expect my MP to carry out the result or else resign as I want an MP that represents his constituents and his party not some maverick that does as he pleases.

It isn't though MY understanding of OUR democracy is it?

It IS our system, whether you like it or not, or whether no-one else here believes me or not.

You cannot change facts.

You can expect your MP to do whatever you like but that doesn't mean they must or indeed ought to. Some may, others won't.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

steeleye20 Croydon 30 Aug 19 2.12pm
The chancellor, Sajid Javid, was not informed in advance about the sacking of one of his senior advisers by Boris Johnson’s strategist Dominic Cummings, it has emerged. Sonia Khan, Javid’s media adviser, was escorted from No 10 by a police officer after being accused of misleading Cummings over her contact with individuals close to the former chancellor Philip Hammond, who has been trying to block a no-deal Brexit. Cummings ruling Johnston, even has the police and as we have seen this week the monarchy. What democracy does he think he is suspending?

steeleye20

Croydon 30 Aug 19 2.12pm

The chancellor, Sajid Javid, was not informed in advance about the sacking of one of his senior advisers by Boris Johnson’s strategist Dominic Cummings, it has emerged.

Sonia Khan, Javid’s media adviser, was escorted from No 10 by a police officer after being accused of misleading Cummings over her contact with individuals close to the former chancellor Philip Hammond, who has been trying to block a no-deal Brexit.

Cummings ruling Johnston, even has the police and as we have seen this week the monarchy.

What democracy does he think he is suspending?

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.15pm
Originally posted by Spiderman You really are becoming very tiresome. Funny I have not heard one MP (not even staunch remainers) supporting your view. Not publicly at the moment as there are much more pressing matters but after the dust settles I would expect the whole issue to become more prevalent so we can avoid this fiasco ever happening again. Holding public consultations so the strength of opinion can be tested and publicly debated in a way that engages people is wise. Asking them to determine policy is madness. It throws our country into the winds of fortune and which way they blow can be hugely influenced from malign forces overseas, interest groups and money. I'd rather trust our representatives. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.15pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

You really are becoming very tiresome. Funny I have not heard one MP (not even staunch remainers) supporting your view.

Not publicly at the moment as there are much more pressing matters but after the dust settles I would expect the whole issue to become more prevalent so we can avoid this fiasco ever happening again.

Holding public consultations so the strength of opinion can be tested and publicly debated in a way that engages people is wise.

Asking them to determine policy is madness. It throws our country into the winds of fortune and which way they blow can be hugely influenced from malign forces overseas, interest groups and money.

I'd rather trust our representatives.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 30 Aug 19 2.18pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Not publicly at the moment as there are much more pressing matters but after the dust settles I would expect the whole issue to become more prevalent so we can avoid this fiasco ever happening again. Holding public consultations so the strength of opinion can be tested and publicly debated in a way that engages people is wise. Asking them to determine policy is madness. It throws our country into the winds of fortune and which way they blow can be hugely influenced from malign forces overseas, interest groups and money. I'd rather trust our representatives. If you believe that politicians are capable of doing that? then you're actually a bigger fool than I first gave you credit for.... Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 30 Aug 19 2.18pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not publicly at the moment as there are much more pressing matters but after the dust settles I would expect the whole issue to become more prevalent so we can avoid this fiasco ever happening again.

Holding public consultations so the strength of opinion can be tested and publicly debated in a way that engages people is wise.

Asking them to determine policy is madness. It throws our country into the winds of fortune and which way they blow can be hugely influenced from malign forces overseas, interest groups and money.

I'd rather trust our representatives.

If you believe that politicians are capable of doing that? then you're actually a bigger fool than I first gave you credit for....

Pro USA & Israel

Lyons550 Shirley 30 Aug 19 2.19pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle There is a tsunami of water still to go under this bridge which will only be released if Parliament is somehow thwarted in it's ability to act. Individual ambitions will all be buried under the collective will to act. Its a shame that it takes so long for the ingrates to actually work TOGETHER, they've largely created this mess by doing the exact opposite The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 30 Aug 19 2.19pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There is a tsunami of water still to go under this bridge which will only be released if Parliament is somehow thwarted in it's ability to act. Individual ambitions will all be buried under the collective will to act.

Its a shame that it takes so long for the ingrates to actually work TOGETHER, they've largely created this mess by doing the exact opposite

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550 Shirley 30 Aug 19 2.22pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC A little bit fanatical here. Reminds me of 'Judgement day is upon us all' (yet again) 'repent, repent, or burn in the fires of hell'. Whatever. You'll be waiting a long time for the second coming of Jebus. And yes that was a deliberate misspelling. If you think such a vast system with countless vested interests and impenetrable power structures is simply going to implode, no questions asked, you're mad as a hatter. There's certainly another crash coming at some stage, but that doesn't mean the whole of the EU ceasing to exist. See 2008. I bet the same people were offering up the same tripey foretellings. Any and all options, on and off the table, will be used to preserve the status quo. Also, may I add, if the EU did come to an end as you seem convinced it will do almost as soon as next week, then it would need to be through such a severe event that your way of life as you know it now will be completely destroyed. Job lost, no future, begging for scraps. Although maybe that's a good thing. It would certainly be a wonderful case study in having your cake and eating it. ..or the weeks prior to the Millennium Bug...with all the doom mongering et al and then it turned out to be a MASSIVE a damp squib The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 30 Aug 19 2.22pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

A little bit fanatical here. Reminds me of 'Judgement day is upon us all' (yet again) 'repent, repent, or burn in the fires of hell'.

Whatever. You'll be waiting a long time for the second coming of Jebus. And yes that was a deliberate misspelling.

If you think such a vast system with countless vested interests and impenetrable power structures is simply going to implode, no questions asked, you're mad as a hatter.

There's certainly another crash coming at some stage, but that doesn't mean the whole of the EU ceasing to exist. See 2008. I bet the same people were offering up the same tripey foretellings. Any and all options, on and off the table, will be used to preserve the status quo.

Also, may I add, if the EU did come to an end as you seem convinced it will do almost as soon as next week, then it would need to be through such a severe event that your way of life as you know it now will be completely destroyed. Job lost, no future, begging for scraps. Although maybe that's a good thing. It would certainly be a wonderful case study in having your cake and eating it.

..or the weeks prior to the Millennium Bug...with all the doom mongering et al and then it turned out to be a MASSIVE a damp squib

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550 Shirley 30 Aug 19 2.29pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I am not the least bit "red with righteous indignation"! I am just observing and commenting on how I see things likely to develop. The time for indignation would only arrive if Parliament is somehow prevented from acting for that would really be a big deal and a constitutional crisis. For it is absolutely NOT Parliament that is trying to "thwart the will of the people". That is just the bs excuse of the arch Brexiteer. Parliament's job is not to allow a 3 year out of date referendum to determine policy if they believe it is not in the country's interests. That Bogus Johnson and his little band of self serving supporters are using that as their justification is simply to wind up people like you. They no more believe it than in the spaghetti monster. When will you people start to understand how representative democracy actually works? The "will of the people" is delegated to their representatives to determine. We don't determine what the policies are and then delegate MPs to carry them out. From what I read there is now unlikely to be a vote of no confidence as this could play into Johnson's hands and give him the chance not to resign but call an election after Oct 31. What seems most likely is that Parliament will force through legislation requiring their approval of any deal, or lack of a deal, prior to exit, thus amending Article 50. If necessary through all night and weekend sittings. The Speaker may yet have some actions up his sleeve. Then there are, of course, the legal challenges. Parliament will have it's way, as it must or our whole system of democracy would be torn apart. But its only gone on that long through the obfuscation of the remainers...you cant have it both ways old boy. BTW have you tried the Garlic Bread yet? The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 30 Aug 19 2.29pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am not the least bit "red with righteous indignation"! I am just observing and commenting on how I see things likely to develop. The time for indignation would only arrive if Parliament is somehow prevented from acting for that would really be a big deal and a constitutional crisis.

For it is absolutely NOT Parliament that is trying to "thwart the will of the people". That is just the bs excuse of the arch Brexiteer. Parliament's job is not to allow a 3 year out of date referendum to determine policy if they believe it is not in the country's interests. That Bogus Johnson and his little band of self serving supporters are using that as their justification is simply to wind up people like you. They no more believe it than in the spaghetti monster.

When will you people start to understand how representative democracy actually works?

The "will of the people" is delegated to their representatives to determine. We don't determine what the policies are and then delegate MPs to carry them out.

From what I read there is now unlikely to be a vote of no confidence as this could play into Johnson's hands and give him the chance not to resign but call an election after Oct 31.

What seems most likely is that Parliament will force through legislation requiring their approval of any deal, or lack of a deal, prior to exit, thus amending Article 50. If necessary through all night and weekend sittings. The Speaker may yet have some actions up his sleeve. Then there are, of course, the legal challenges.

Parliament will have it's way, as it must or our whole system of democracy would be torn apart.

But its only gone on that long through the obfuscation of the remainers...you cant have it both ways old boy. BTW have you tried the Garlic Bread yet?

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.32pm
Originally posted by Jimenez If you believe that politicians are capable of doing that? then you're actually a bigger fool than I first gave you credit for.... Of course they are capable. Whether they will is another question entirely but there are some very intelligent people in Parliament who are very much more aware of the issues we face than we are, and have access to all the expert advice they need. I would not be the least surprised to see some regulations introduced on when, how and if a future referendum could be called and what it's legal status would be. My guess being than any referendum result that had a significant impact on the future direction of the UK would be subject to a cooling off period and not be permitted to take effect until after a GE had confirmed a new Parliament which approved of it. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.32pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

If you believe that politicians are capable of doing that? then you're actually a bigger fool than I first gave you credit for....

Of course they are capable. Whether they will is another question entirely but there are some very intelligent people in Parliament who are very much more aware of the issues we face than we are, and have access to all the expert advice they need.

I would not be the least surprised to see some regulations introduced on when, how and if a future referendum could be called and what it's legal status would be. My guess being than any referendum result that had a significant impact on the future direction of the UK would be subject to a cooling off period and not be permitted to take effect until after a GE had confirmed a new Parliament which approved of it.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Rudi Hedman Caterham 30 Aug 19 2.38pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Why? Referendums are not part of our democracy and those that claim otherwise are lying. Our system depends on the will of the people we elect as MPs. Our job starts, and ends, when we choose them. Did you vote in the referendum? COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 30 Aug 19 2.38pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Why? Referendums are not part of our democracy and those that claim otherwise are lying.

Our system depends on the will of the people we elect as MPs. Our job starts, and ends, when we choose them.

Did you vote in the referendum?

COYP

steeleye20 Croydon 30 Aug 19 2.56pm
The 2016 referendum was a load of old cobblers and everybody knows it. Did anyone have any knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent law, no they didnt, or anything else except their own selfish prejudices against 'Johnny Foreigner'. The quite dreadful withdrawal agreement, worse than remaining in the EU, complies with the Good Friday Agreement/referendum, it is legal. Leaving with no-deal is obviously not, we can only imagine what may happen. Tbh the EU should have booted the UK out.

steeleye20

Croydon 30 Aug 19 2.56pm

The 2016 referendum was a load of old cobblers and everybody knows it.

Did anyone have any knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent law, no they didnt, or anything else except their own selfish prejudices against 'Johnny Foreigner'.

The quite dreadful withdrawal agreement, worse than remaining in the EU, complies with the Good Friday Agreement/referendum, it is legal.

Leaving with no-deal is obviously not, we can only imagine what may happen.

Tbh the EU should have booted the UK out.

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Aug 19 2.59pm
Got cornered in the pub last night about how Boris is worse than Trump and that the Queen is to blame for the current situation. I simply explained that I'd prefer them any day to Macron, Merkel and Tusk and most people agreed. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Aug 19 2.59pm

Got cornered in the pub last night about how Boris is worse than Trump and that the Queen is to blame for the current situation. I simply explained that I'd prefer them any day to Macron, Merkel and Tusk and most people agreed.

Red and Blue Army!

palace_in_frogland In a broken dream 30 Aug 19 3.02pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The 2016 referendum was a load of old cobblers and everybody knows it. Did anyone have any knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent law, no they didnt, or anything else except their own selfish prejudices against 'Johnny Foreigner'. The quite dreadful withdrawal agreement, worse than remaining in the EU, complies with the Good Friday Agreement/referendum, it is legal. Leaving with no-deal is obviously not, we can only imagine what may happen. Tbh the EU should have booted the UK out. Booted us out with no deal?

palace_in_frogland

In a broken dream 30 Aug 19 3.02pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The 2016 referendum was a load of old cobblers and everybody knows it.

Did anyone have any knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent law, no they didnt, or anything else except their own selfish prejudices against 'Johnny Foreigner'.

The quite dreadful withdrawal agreement, worse than remaining in the EU, complies with the Good Friday Agreement/referendum, it is legal.

Leaving with no-deal is obviously not, we can only imagine what may happen.

Tbh the EU should have booted the UK out.

Booted us out with no deal?

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 30 Aug 19 3.13pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The 2016 referendum was a load of old cobblers and everybody knows it. Did anyone have any knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent law, no they didnt, or anything else except their own selfish prejudices against 'Johnny Foreigner'. The quite dreadful withdrawal agreement, worse than remaining in the EU, complies with the Good Friday Agreement/referendum, it is legal. Leaving with no-deal is obviously not, we can only imagine what may happen. Tbh the EU should have booted the UK out. Problem is they lack the balls to do it knowing what a cash cow the UK are. It would be like La Liga kicking Barcelona or Real Madrid out of the Spanish league, sure the league would survive but for how long? Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 30 Aug 19 3.13pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The 2016 referendum was a load of old cobblers and everybody knows it.

Did anyone have any knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent law, no they didnt, or anything else except their own selfish prejudices against 'Johnny Foreigner'.

The quite dreadful withdrawal agreement, worse than remaining in the EU, complies with the Good Friday Agreement/referendum, it is legal.

Leaving with no-deal is obviously not, we can only imagine what may happen.

Tbh the EU should have booted the UK out.

Problem is they lack the balls to do it knowing what a cash cow the UK are.
It would be like La Liga kicking Barcelona or Real Madrid out of the Spanish league, sure the league would survive but for how long?

Pro USA & Israel

Lyons550 Shirley 30 Aug 19 3.17pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The 2016 referendum was a load of old cobblers and everybody knows it. Did anyone have any knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent law, no they didnt, or anything else except their own selfish prejudices against 'Johnny Foreigner'. The quite dreadful withdrawal agreement, worse than remaining in the EU, complies with the Good Friday Agreement/referendum, it is legal. Leaving with no-deal is obviously not, we can only imagine what may happen. Tbh the EU should have booted the UK out. Why didnt they then? The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 30 Aug 19 3.17pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The 2016 referendum was a load of old cobblers and everybody knows it.

Did anyone have any knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent law, no they didnt, or anything else except their own selfish prejudices against 'Johnny Foreigner'.

The quite dreadful withdrawal agreement, worse than remaining in the EU, complies with the Good Friday Agreement/referendum, it is legal.

Leaving with no-deal is obviously not, we can only imagine what may happen.

Tbh the EU should have booted the UK out.

Why didnt they then?

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 Aug 19 3.19pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Maybe, to some, but it doesn't stop me being right does it? That many here don't understand that we don't have a direct democracy in the UK but a Parliamentary one, is just very sad. It isn't though my fault. You are the only one that thinks you are right !!! Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 Aug 19 3.19pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Maybe, to some, but it doesn't stop me being right does it?
That many here don't understand that we don't have a direct democracy in the UK but a Parliamentary one, is just very sad. It isn't though my fault.

You are the only one that thinks you are right !!!

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 Aug 19 3.21pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The chancellor, Sajid Javid, was not informed in advance about the sacking of one of his senior advisers by Boris Johnson’s strategist Dominic Cummings, it has emerged. Sonia Khan, Javid’s media adviser, was escorted from No 10 by a police officer after being accused of misleading Cummings over her contact with individuals close to the former chancellor Philip Hammond, who has been trying to block a no-deal Brexit. Cummings ruling Johnston, even has the police and as we have seen this week the monarchy. What democracy does he think he is suspending? You have not taken your medication today have you? Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 Aug 19 3.21pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The chancellor, Sajid Javid, was not informed in advance about the sacking of one of his senior advisers by Boris Johnson’s strategist Dominic Cummings, it has emerged.

Cummings ruling Johnston, even has the police and as we have seen this week the monarchy.

What democracy does he think he is suspending?

You have not taken your medication today have you?

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

dannyboy1978 30 Aug 19 3.22pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Did you vote in the referendum? If that's the case why didn't the lib dems not will the election if you think the country wants to leave?

dannyboy1978

30 Aug 19 3.22pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Did you vote in the referendum?

If that's the case why didn't the lib dems not will the election if you think the country wants to leave?

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 Aug 19 3.24pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The 2016 referendum was a load of old cobblers and everybody knows it. Did anyone have any knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent law, no they didnt, or anything else except their own selfish prejudices against 'Johnny Foreigner'. The quite dreadful withdrawal agreement, worse than remaining in the EU, complies with the Good Friday Agreement/referendum, it is legal. Leaving with no-deal is obviously not, we can only imagine what may happen. Tbh the EU should have booted the UK out. Pity they did not as it would have saved all this trouble we are going through now. Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 Aug 19 3.24pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The 2016 referendum was a load of old cobblers and everybody knows it.

Did anyone have any knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent law, no they didnt, or anything else except their own selfish prejudices against 'Johnny Foreigner'.

The quite dreadful withdrawal agreement, worse than remaining in the EU, complies with the Good Friday Agreement/referendum, it is legal.

Leaving with no-deal is obviously not, we can only imagine what may happen.

Tbh the EU should have booted the UK out.

Pity they did not as it would have saved all this trouble we are going through now.

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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