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| nickgusset |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Hahaha...this is Nick's idea of providing balance. All that terrible stuff and what interests you is moaning about private business in Venezuela....it's comedy if nothing else. You take an article written by Joyce Nelson who is a 72 year old left wing progressive freelance writer/researcher....She's a platform for the regime's views because.....'must....protect....socialism'. Frankly what the fcuk does she know about what's going on in Venezuela? At 72 she down there at the protests is she....detailing events....absolute BS. I'll prefer to take my news on that from human rights organizations. You can take it from 'progressive' echo chambers....that way your worldview isn't too damaged. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Aug 2017 1.01pm) More than one side to every story. You seem neglect this in this case.
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| nickgusset |
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No of course they're not Nazis.
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Originally posted by nickgusset
More than one side to every story. You seem neglect this in this case. There is....but when I try to gauge the truth of a matter like this I try to find opinions that don't come with an automatic political bias....I guess that is where we are different. Well, everyone has a bias of course but what I'm looking for is a secular democratic bias. When it comes to stuff that doesn't involve life and death....well...I don't mind a bit of knockabout...the push and pull of the political dance.....But when it gets down to people being slaughtered...people taking you away in the middle of the night.... I tend to become much more serious.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
No of course they're not Nazis. Well, that guy thinks he is. Most of those flags are confederate flags. That's about the south..wasn't this protest about the removing of a statute of General Lee?..I doubt they support slavery. But maybe someone should actually ask them? Maybe they do..... Well Tim Pool has asked plenty of times....But you aren't interested. You're that guy who just shouts 'Nazi'. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Aug 2017 1.42pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
There is....but when I try to gauge the truth of a matter like this I try to find opinions that don't come with an automatic political bias....I guess that is where we are different. Well, everyone has a bias of course but what I'm looking for is a secular democratic bias. When it comes to stuff that doesn't involve life and death....well...I don't mind a bit of knockabout...the push and pull of the political dance.....But when it gets down to people being slaughtered...people taking you away in the middle of the night.... I tend to become much more serious. You don't think there is political bias in establishment news sources. Labour MP Chris Williamson. We Mustn’t Back Another US-Led Regime Change In Latin America The Tories have been fanning the flames and a handful of New Labour diehards have jumped onto the bandwagon to demand that the Labour leader condemn Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Jeremy is on record supporting the Bolivarian revolution that started with the election of Hugo Chavez in 1998. The Chavez administration secured colossal improvements in living standards in the intervening years up to his untimely death on March 5 2013. Oil revenues were used as a solidarity tool to address the hideous inequality that afflicted the country after years of neoliberal fundamentalism. This saw a massive investment programme in healthcare, housing and free education, enabling poor Venezuelans to access decent housing, healthcare, medicines and subsidised food for those in need. It also resulted in large numbers of jobs being created in the public sector, giving people the dignity of work in secure employment. Consequently, poverty was slashed, infant mortality was substantially reduced and, according to Unesco, Venezuela eliminated illiteracy in 2005. This spending on education empowered people and facilitated grassroots political participation. Jeremy was therefore completely correct to commend the achievements in Venezuela. But the proxy-warmongers have seized the opportunity to use Venezuela’s current travails to express faux outrage about the “regime.” The collapse in the price of oil has inevitably affected Venezuela’s economy. This has been made worse by economic sabotage, by the country’s elites, to create shortages in the shops, widespread violent street protests and external interference by the US. The US Department of State openly budgets to spend millions of dollars every year to support right-wing opposition forces in Venezuela. Even former president Barack Obama signed an executive order declaring Venezuela an “unusual and extraordinary threat” to the national security of the US, which is utterly absurd. It is the combination of these factors together with alleged cronyism, corruption and inefficiency that has made the job of Maduro’s government almost impossible since Chavez died. The US has a long history of seeking regime change in Latin America. Thousands of declassified CIA documents under Bill Clinton revealed that the CIA constructed and supported “Operation Condor” to overthrow democratically elected leftist governments via bloody coups in what the US patronisingly describes as its “backyard.” The US installed repugnant right-wing military dictatorships that systematically exterminated tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of leftist opponents. Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay all had their governments overthrown with the help of the CIA, not to mention US involvement in Nicaragua. Operation Condor began in Chile, with the CIA-backed 1973 coup against Salvador Allende. The tactics deployed against Allende are chillingly similar to those being employed in Venezuela today. Richard Nixon said he wanted to “make the economy [in Chile] scream.” The economic disruption preceded the military coup led by Augusto Pinochet, who imposed a repressive regime that routinely tortured and murdered political opponents. Chavez himself was subject to a coup attempt in 2002, but a popular uprising forced the conspirators out and Chavez was reinstated within two days. But none of this context is given by the British media, nor the Tories who are ideologically linked to the neoliberal agenda of Venezuela’s elites. It is perhaps understandable that Labour’s political enemies are using Venezuela’s difficulties to make mischief, but it is frustrating to see the dwindling band of New Labour neocons doing likewise. They conveniently ignore the history and the extreme violence of the right-wing opposition groups. Thanks to the hysterical media hyperbole, casual observers could be forgiven for thinking that Venezuela is in the grip of a totalitarian despot. Yet it is a highly democratic country whose elections have been observed by former US president Jimmy Carter. He said: “As a matter of fact, of the 92 elections that we’ve monitored, I would say that the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world.” I wonder what those who are attacking Venezuela would say if similar violent street protests were taking place in Britain? We know what one Tory MP, Alan Duncan, thinks. In 2008 he said that people who were peacefully protesting outside Parliament against the planned expansion of Heathrow were “bloody well lucky not to be shot or gassed.” Yet as far as Duncan and co are concerned, the extremely violent street protests in Venezuela are acceptable and it is the Venezuelan government that should be condemned for holding a Constituent Assembly election. Nicolas Maduro called the election, which is provided for in the country’s constitution, in an attempt to bring an end to the bloodshed on the streets and reconcile the country. The Assembly’s job is to amend the country’s constitution, as was done in 1999 using the same process. There was nothing to stop the right-wing opposition contesting the election, but they chose to boycott it and call more demonstrations. Of course, the truth is the US would dearly love its petroleum corporations to gain control of Venezuela’s oil reserves, which are the largest in the world. That is the main reason why they want a compliant government in charge. Having said all that, Venezuela is not a perfect democracy. But far from enhancing democracy, imposing sanctions and seeking to isolate the country could destroy it and herald in another brutal dictatorship, which would be disastrous for the poor in Venezuela. That is why we should not only be calling for human rights to be upheld by Nicolas Maduro’s administration, we must also call on the right-wing opposition to do likewise. We should also demand that the US stops interfering in Venezuela’s affairs to bring about regime change and call on them to help facilitate reconciliation instead.
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Originally posted by nickgusset
You don't think there is political bias in establishment news sources. There is truth in this...I'd already spoken of bias....I'll ignore the Labour MP who you could direct the same message to....He makes unbacked claims that show his own biases. However, I think that when you start to criticise 'human rights watch' I think you have to detail where it is going wrong. I haven't heard you do that.....All you keep doing is cut and pasting. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Aug 2017 2.00pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Could you stop mis-labelling them, they aren't 'Nazis'. 'Nazis', are specific to their time and place....It's just a silly rallying cry. They are the far right from what I can tell....I find it hard to gather up the interest to find out.....But I know they aren't 'Nazis' Nick. Well the mayor of Charlottesville refers to them as "Nazis", [Link] in fact, there has long been an American Nazi party, Emboldened by Trump and his courting of these groups they have joined with other white supremacists and now look like they're confident enough to go overground
I used to be immortal |
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Ex Klan leader invokes Trump in "taking our country back""!!
I used to be immortal |
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Originally posted by crystal balls
Well the mayor of Charlottesville refers to them as "Nazis", [Link] in fact, there has long been an American Nazi party, Emboldened by Trump and his courting of these groups they have joined with other white supremacists and now look like they're confident enough to go overground You can call yourself Napoleon....guess what....it doesn't make you Napoleon. But if these people genuinely feel like they are Nazis then I guess that they are Nazis....At least American type and concern Nazis. Were they at the march then? Wasn't the council apart of the problem because they have voted to remove a statue of General Lee that's been there for ages. I guess I won't take their views on what a Nazi is seriously then......sounds like a progressive like you. I don't really give much weight to the views of progressives in some areas. If Nazis were there, then they were there....But I prefer to listen to the views of politically neutral people like Tim Pool. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Aug 2017 2.43pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Originally posted by crystal balls
Ex Klan leader invokes Trump in "taking our country back""!! Oh no....Oh God.....Oh Gooooooodddddddd!!!!! Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Aug 2017 2.46pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| wordup |
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Originally posted by crystal balls
Ex Klan leader invokes Trump in "taking our country back""!! Duke is a notorious figure in the states. You may well recall the interview where Trump, when endorsed by Duke, absurdly and repeatedly denied even knowing who he was and refused to knock back support from affiliated supremacist groups saying that he'd 'look into it'. This is part of the problem. There are certainly identity politics issues in the US right now on the left and right but Trump is part of that, not removed from it. When people protest against Trump he has no problem calling them professional anarchists. When he decides that he wants patriotic trans members of the military out because it plays well with his supporters, he has no problem stating that. Trump always plays dumb on this type of domestic terrorism and extremism and is wishy washy about it. He can reel off a muslim ban speech due to islamic terrorism but on a day where significant numbers of torch carrying white nationalists march through a town shouting out nazi chants and a domestic terrorist drives into innocent people killing someone, Trump gave a speech about violence on all sides and how great the economy was because of him. You will never hear him genuinely and seriously address this issue because he enjoys support of these groups. That's what it comes down to.
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Originally posted by wordup
Duke is a notorious figure in the states. You may well recall the interview where Trump, when endorsed by Duke, absurdly and repeatedly denied even knowing who he was and refused to knock back support from affiliated supremacist groups saying that he'd 'look into it'. This is part of the problem. There are certainly identity politics issues in the US right now on the left and right but Trump is part of that, not removed from it. When people protest against Trump he has no problem calling them professional anarchists. When he decides that he wants patriotic trans members of the military out because it plays well with his supporters, he has no problem stating that. Trump always plays dumb on this type of domestic terrorism and extremism and is wishy washy about it. He can reel off a muslim ban speech due to islamic terrorism but on a day where significant numbers of torch carrying white nationalists march through a town shouting out nazi chants and a domestic terrorist drives into innocent people killing someone, Trump gave a speech about violence on all sides and how great the economy was because of him. You will never hear him genuinely and seriously address this issue because he enjoys support of these groups. That's what it comes down to. True, I think that's fair comment. I don't think for one moment he supports people driving cars into crowds or hitting people.....but he knows that these guys aren't going to vote democrat. Obama had 'black lives matter' around to the white house when some of their nuttier supporters had murdered people. I'm pretty certain Obama didn't support that either. Politicians are whorees for votes.....Always have been and always will be.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset |
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Trump's America #2
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You can call yourself Napoleon....guess what....it doesn't make you Napoleon. But if these people genuinely feel like they are Nazis then I guess that they are Nazis....At least American type and concern Nazis. Were they at the march then? Wasn't the council apart of the problem because they have voted to remove a statue of General Lee that's been there for ages. I guess I won't take their views on what a Nazi is seriously then......sounds like a progressive like you. I don't really give much weight to the views of progressives in some areas. If Nazis were there, then they were there....But I prefer to listen to the views of politically neutral people like Tim Pool. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Aug 2017 2.43pm) They call themselves Nazis; you might not call them Nazis but you're just ignoring the facts! They identify with Hitler and his policies and support Trump, who fails to distance himself from them. In fact, he actively welcomes their support! Stirling, you cannot seriously condone this and blame the local elected politicians in favour of some assault rifle toting morons! Your credibility is seriously compromised on this thread!
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| wordup |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
True, I think that's fair comment. I don't think for one moment he supports people driving cars into crowds or hitting people.....but he knows that these guys aren't going to vote democrat. Obama had 'black lives matter' around to the white house when some of their nuttier supporters had murdered people. I'm pretty certain Obama didn't support that either. Politicians are whorees for votes.....Always have been and always will be. Oh I certainly agree that he takes no joy in people getting hit with cars. I expect the level of seriousness even took him by surprise.
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| jamiemartin721 |
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Originally posted by crystal balls
They call themselves Nazis; you might not call them Nazis but you're just ignoring the facts! They identify with Hitler and his policies and support Trump, who fails to distance himself from them. In fact, he actively welcomes their support! Stirling, you cannot seriously condone this and blame the local elected politicians in favour of some assault rifle toting morons! Your credibility is seriously compromised on this thread! F**k the far right in America - The white supremacist, Neo-Nazis and ultra nationalists - The removal of the statue was democratically agreed, by the elected representatives of the people. The right wing in the US aren't a major problem, but the Neo-Nazis, White Supremacists and their affiliates on the far right, who do advocate 'armed resistance' are little more than terrorist groups, involved in some very insidious agendas and criminality.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You can call yourself Napoleon....guess what....it doesn't make you Napoleon. But if these people genuinely feel like they are Nazis then I guess that they are Nazis....At least American type and concern Nazis. Were they at the march then? Wasn't the council apart of the problem because they have voted to remove a statue of General Lee that's been there for ages. I guess I won't take their views on what a Nazi is seriously then......sounds like a progressive like you. I don't really give much weight to the views of progressives in some areas. If Nazis were there, then they were there....But I prefer to listen to the views of politically neutral people like Tim Pool. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Aug 2017 2.43pm) The democratically elected council, through a democratic vote selected to move the statue. And in response 'unite the right' brought a number of far right groups involved in white supremacists and neo-Nazi groups into the protest - Which they began by marching through the local university (to incite violence and create animosity). I prefer to listen to the political neutral, but then when you have terrorists ramming cars into protesters its gone beyond the neutral - its an act of terror aimed at shutting down democratic process and legitimate political discourse. None of these people were involved in the protest until it had the potential to be a confrontation.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Trump's America #2 The dickhead Klan have always been there.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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