The point obviously wasn't a detailed explanation of my views on Africa. It was a comparison in the likely difference in attitudes people like you have to the same situation with different demographics.

Still, no missing an opportunity for a cheap shot eh.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Israel's Arab population is growing at a faster rate than the rate of growth in Israel's Jewish population. As a mathematics teacher are you arguing against the inevitable consequence of this fact?

It is as entirely different matter what the Israeli state has chosen to do about this fact, namely the introduction of the controversial nation state law.

A law which interestingly enough does not explicitly exclude Arab citizens from living in Jewish communities.

But you argue that the most important measure of allegiance is ethnicity. I believe that there are many other important factors that influence allegiance.

Yes a state can do this. But can it do so without provoking conflict with a large number of its own citizens and / or with the citizens of neighboring countries?

After WWII about 250,000 ethnically German Hungarians were forced to leave Hungary and 10,000 were killed. There remains a large number of swabians living in Hungary. Some have retained their Swabian culture and others have become completely integrated. But all of them have a Hungarian identity.

Your idea of what makes someone English remains murky. The importance to you of the genetic aspect leads you to a place where you appear to view black English people as people who have become English rather than are English in the sense that you associate the country with. This is what then leads you to your view of being open to speciifcally IQ testing non Europeans entering the country. You appear to imagine that anyone defending others regardless of their race is far left while you yourself apparently wax lyrical about violent far right groups like Proud Boys. A group acknowledged by the FBI to have extremist elements within it led until recently by someone who couldn't go 5 seconds without saying the n word. Nice company to keep.

I'd have zero issues with the borders being closed tomorrow to be honest with you. Some other countries aren't big on immigration and that's fine with me and with the exception of being useful to the economy I don't really give two figs about cutting numbers. Clearly many share that view hence Brexit vote. However, let's be clear, I throw my lot in with my countrymen regardless of their colour or creed. I have no hierarchy at home and if the country is to have immigration the very idea of IQ testing people based on the colour of their skin and your perceived genetic value of them to the nation is clearly racist and most rightminded individuals in this country would reject it outright.

Edited by Tawny (16 Dec 2018 1.35pm)

No a state's identity isn't 'imposed'. Every individual has the ability to change it. But they won't have the same rights if they do within that particular country. If they don't like it, live in a country that identifies you in that sense.

There is no authoritarianism if there is free choice.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Dec 2018 1.47pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Like in Hungary for example where everyone was identified as a communist by the state irrespective of choice?

What pray is the difference between that and a state within which all the people are identified as English?

Perhaps I don't wish to be identified as English in exactly the same way the state imposes the state's definition of Englishness upon me?

Where's my freedom to choose my own identity? And from where does your authority come from to impose your definition of Englishness upon me? Something which you defined as the ultimate sovereignty (sorry if I misquoted that bit but you said something like that).