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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 03 Sep 19 12.13pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Ok a simple question of a new referendum. As I don't want any referendums, ever on any subject, that is not an option that I hope will ever have to be faced. I want Parliament to do it's job. However if they were the choices that were put then so be it. I rather doubt though that Parliament would accept them.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 03 Sep 19 12.25pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Today's the day. I am confident that Corbyn will win his vote with the help of about 11 Tory MPs and the rest of the opposition. I actually think that Johnson will be better off losing this vote. If by some miracle he did win it still means that the opposition could continue to come up with other ways to block Brexit which they may win. Time to lance the boil. Johnson will then ask parliament for a GE on 14 Oct which needs 3/4 of the house to vote for (not abstain). Corbyn said last night bring it on, he's a Martini boy any time any place, fair enough. One fly in the ointment some Labour Remain MPs are saying that will only agree to a GE after Oct 31 meaning they want an extension to Jan 21 before they will agree to a GE. I would be surprised if that is Labour's official policy the whole point of holding the election on Oct 14 is for the public to have their say those who don't support a GE after complaining about democracy being in danger will look rather stupid. Do you really think that opposition MPs will trust Johnson calling an election on Oct 14th? I think his Machiavellian backroom boys are devious enough to find reasons to delay the date until after the 31st. Apparently it clashes with Jewish conventions around that time. That would be a great excuse wouldn't it? I wouldn't trust Johnson to give me £50. As I suggested a few pages back I think whilst Corbyn might want to grab the "opportunity" wiser heads in the background will rein him in. It's moving too quickly to be certain but this seems to be playing out as I thought it would. A forced delay followed by a GE in October.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 03 Sep 19 12.31pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Unbelievable Shami leather the shadow attorney General has just confirmed that Labour will only support a GE post 31 Oct.
You can't make this up.
It's blindingly obvious that to try to arrange a GE now is for one purpose only so that if you disagree with that purpose you don't allow it to happen, if you have the votes to achieve that. You assess priorities and act accordingly. That is what you do in a democracy so there is no a smidgen of hypocrisy involved.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 03 Sep 19 12.34pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Indeed nothing to hold the rebels back now. As another club's fans say "let em all come down the Den" Time for MPs to stand up and be counted I would rather face my enemies than have them behind me. Greening, Clarke, Hammond et al will vote against the government and must face the consequences. Edited by Badger11 (03 Sep 2019 9.09am) Those who wish to will face their electorates and by showing themselves as people with principles and honour are very likely to either succeed again, or split the Tory vote.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Maine Eagle USA 03 Sep 19 12.48pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Just be honest. You want to see Article 50 revoked and you want to pretend that you still believe in democracy. You want a cloak of respectability for your dictatorial desire to see the result of 2016 ignored. Have the courage to just be honest about that. Be up-front. I actually have a modicum of respect for people who just want the Leave vote ignored. Those who still proclaim it was just advisory and that there is nothing wrong with just dismissing it as irrelevant. We know where we stand with those people. There is a principle of a sort in that position. But lets cut the virtue signalling. Lets lose this notion that somehow you want to help us poor Leavers truly understand what we actually voted for on June 23rd. You don't think my vote should count as much as a Remainers. Own that. Be frank with us about that viewpoint. You will feel, in the long term, much better about yourself if you do.
I explained, very very clearly why I believe remain should be an option. It was my theory on Brexit knowledge being at about 10% in 2016 when the first vote happened. Do you deny, that you know a lot more about the reality and impact of Brexit now, than you did in 2016? Do you therefore accept, some people might have changed their view? I dont want to leave the EU as its a load of bollocks sold to a bunch of suckers who lapped it up like chocolate milk. However I dont want to negate the result of 2016, and I am just pointing out the democracy involves regularly taking the temperature of the populous to see what they want to do, not just at a single point in time. Do you deny that possible hundreds of thousands of people, or millions, might feel differently now than they did 3 years ago?
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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03 Sep 19 12.51pm
| Badger11 Beckenham 03 Sep 19 1.10pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Those who wish to will face their electorates and by showing themselves as people with principles and honour are very likely to either succeed again, or split the Tory vote. Or get their backsides kicked by the electorate.
One more point |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 03 Sep 19 1.12pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
This is actually starting to get interesting now. What would happen if we do have to go back to the polls and we get a hung parliament? Infinite purgatory? Horrendous In that case I will be looking to rent a space beneath Parliament I have a few things I need to store there until the state opening. But you are correct another hung Parliament is the nightmare scenario.
One more point |
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| Mapletree Croydon 03 Sep 19 1.19pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
I explained, very very clearly why I believe remain should be an option. It was my theory on Brexit knowledge being at about 10% in 2016 when the first vote happened. Do you deny, that you know a lot more about the reality and impact of Brexit now, than you did in 2016? Do you therefore accept, some people might have changed their view? I dont want to leave the EU as its a load of bollocks sold to a bunch of suckers who lapped it up like chocolate milk. However I dont want to negate the result of 2016, and I am just pointing out the democracy involves regularly taking the temperature of the populous to see what they want to do, not just at a single point in time. Do you deny that possible hundreds of thousands of people, or millions, might feel differently now than they did 3 years ago? To me, you miss the main point. The people that voted in the second referendum are not the same people that would vote in a third. There are 2 million young people to add in - largely likely to vote Remain - and 1.5m to take out - largely likely to have voted Leave. A total of 82% of 18 to 24-year-olds with a voting preference say they would vote Remain in a third referendum. In contrast, two-thirds of those aged 65 and over would back Leave, while only one-third would favour Remain. As a reminder, most people over 65 are now retired. We are being sleep walked into a decision that is no longer valid. If ever it was the will of the people (many people used it as a protest vote for a variety of reasons) it almost certainly isn't now. Edited by Mapletree (03 Sep 2019 1.22pm)
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jeeagles  03 Sep 19 1.22pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
I explained, very very clearly why I believe remain should be an option. It was my theory on Brexit knowledge being at about 10% in 2016 when the first vote happened. Do you deny, that you know a lot more about the reality and impact of Brexit now, than you did in 2016? Do you therefore accept, some people might have changed their view? I dont want to leave the EU as its a load of bollocks sold to a bunch of suckers who lapped it up like chocolate milk. However I dont want to negate the result of 2016, and I am just pointing out the democracy involves regularly taking the temperature of the populous to see what they want to do, not just at a single point in time. Do you deny that possible hundreds of thousands of people, or millions, might feel differently now than they did 3 years ago? All these arguments were around prior to the vote and discussed at length, then the country, rightly or wrongly, chose to leave. Remainers going repeating the same old arguments need to move on and come up with reasons why we should join the EU.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 03 Sep 19 1.26pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
To me, you miss the main point. The people that voted in the second referendum are not the same people that would vote in a third. There are 2 million young people to add in - largely likely to vote Remain - and 1.5m to take out - largely likely to have voted Leave. A total of 82% of 18 to 24-year-olds with a voting preference say they would vote Remain in a third referendum. In contrast, two-thirds of those aged 65 and over would back Leave, while only one-third would favour Remain. As a reminder, most people over 65 are now retired. We are being sleep walked into a decision that is no longer valid. If ever it was the will of the people (many people used it as a protest vote for a variety of reasons) it almost certainly isn't now. Edited by Mapletree (03 Sep 2019 1.22pm) AH ! I now see the plan.
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| Matov 03 Sep 19 1.33pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
It was my theory on Brexit knowledge being at about 10% in 2016 when the first vote happened. Did we have to sit a test before we voted? How on earth do you think you know what we all knew or did not? Your stance is perhaps the most arrogant I have ever come across. Or are you psychic? A crystal ball? Tarot cards? Reading the tea leaves? Democracy does not involve, in any way, shape or form, those who lose deciding on behalf of those whose votes were in the majority that they did not know what they were voting for and that because of that, you get a chance to vote again for your prefered option. And us Leavers are meant to be the deluded ones? LOL. As a genuine question, why would a second referendum with Remain as an option be considered the definitive one? Why should I, who voted in utter good faith on June 23rd 2016, think that this time it really really really does count? Will you promise not to have your fingers crossed this time? Will you really really really accept the result this time even if you don't like the outcome?
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| elgrande bedford 03 Sep 19 1.51pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
AH ! I now see the plan.
Indeed willow. t*** face Heseltine said exactly that on the wireless this am.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 03 Sep 19 2.00pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
AH ! I now see the plan.
That has already been happening over the last three years, the polls showing 56% remain now. Currently the majority of people do not want to leave the EU.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 03 Sep 19 2.07pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
That has already been happening over the last three years, the polls showing 56% remain now. Currently the majority of people do not want to leave the EU. The polls had 'Remain' winning the last referendum.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 03 Sep 19 2.18pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
The polls had 'Remain' winning the last referendum. Actually it is reflected in the recent voting as well, remain parties polled around 56%, higher than the tory/brexit leavers combined.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 03 Sep 19 2.21pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Or get their backsides kicked by the electorate. Whilst splitting the vote!
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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