This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
Visit the current forum | Forum Rules
 Badger11  Beckenham 04 Sep 19 8.13am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by dynamicdick
All Tory MP’s who rebelled last night deserved to be barred and I sent a strongly worded email to Nicholas Soames in the early hours today partly comparing him to Winston but only as a relation. Agreed. This fight has been going on within the Tory party for decades sooner or later it had to be dealt with. Johnson loses nothing by expelling the malcontents in fact it shows him as strong. At the GE some of these may stand as independent Tory or for another party. I always feel that some MP's overstate their standing with the voters and are not as beloved as they like to think. If the rebels win Johnson is no worse off than now. As For Sir Nicholas Soames "Never have I seen so much rubbish written by so many" First off Churchill spent a good part of his career flip flopping between the Tories and the Liberals he was not a "loyal" Tory. Secondly so what if Soames is his grandson is that how we run things now? It's unfortunate that it has come to this but the vast majority of the party members and the voters support leaving. The rebels are the ones out of step with the party they could have supported the government and continued the fight post Brexit but they chose not to and so most accept the consequences. This is a fight Theresa May ducked as did Major and many of the other Tory leaders. Credit to Johnson for grasping the nettle. Edited by Badger11 (04 Sep 2019 8.15am)
One more point |
|
| Mapletree Croydon 04 Sep 19 8.47am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by dollardays
I missed this at the time. Not as though it means much from a stranger but if this happened I'm very sorry for your loss and just wanted to state that rather than let this drift by She wasn’t badly hurt, just shocked. But many thanks for caring
|
|
| Mapletree Croydon 04 Sep 19 8.51am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by the silurian
The voting paper said remain or leave.....nothing about a deal!! Grow up. Voters based their decisions on the information available, mostly provided by the official campaigns.
|
|
| Matov 04 Sep 19 8.56am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Mapletree
Grow up. Voters based their decisions on the information available, mostly provided by the official campaigns. WTF? Leave or Remain. A simple question. No preconditions attached to either position. And numerous promises the result would be honoured. What is not to understand? If you want the votes of 17 million plus people ignored then have the courage to admit that. Don't hide behind this 'oh poor Leavers did not understand what the word 'leave' meant.'. We did.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Sep 19 8.58am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Penge Eagle
406 constituencies voted LEAVE Parliament VERSUS the people. We have a Parliamentary democracy. We don't return delegates. We return representatives. Their job is to decide on our behalf what is best for the country, using their knowledge, access to expert advice and in the light of events. We don't just tot up an arbitrary number set that happens to suit a particular argument.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Sep 19 8.59am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Mapletree
Oh really? Well, I hope you are right, the risks are absolutely enormous. My sister was blown up by the IRA by the way. I’m sorry to hear that. Where did this happen?
COYP |
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Sep 19 9.02am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Interdependence does have a net positive affect upon nations and this isn't going to change regardless of the presence of the EU. Peace since WW2 has been patchy but essentially the improvement has been multifactored. As to why I object to the idea of being slowly absorbed into a superstate the reasons against that have been so regularly posted on here that you must surely know.....some of them are even in the post you replied to. Western war is financial now anyway, need I say anymore?
COYP |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Sep 19 9.07am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by the silurian
ok I give up, you are an obvious Labour troll and its like arguing with porridge talking to you, still at least you'll be happy when the will of 17.5 million people is overturned and Corbyn is PM
I am a traditional "one nation" Tory who, by the way, thinks Ken Clarke represents all that I value in the party. I also believe in Parliamentary and not direct democracy. Referendums are no way to decide complex issues and can be manipulated by malign influences to suit agendas against our actual interests.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Sep 19 9.13am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Badger11
Well so much for Johnson's coup he wants a GE Corbyn doesn't I thought coup leaders were against democracy? Odd that Corbyn has spent the last 3 years demanding a GE now he has cold feet. "What do we want? A general election" The excuse that Johnson might change the GE date after Parliament is prorogued is just that. I am confident that the date can be put into the vote that Parliament passes. Additionally The Squeaker sorry I mean Speaker could write to HM on behalf of the house stating the approval is only given for that date. If Boris then tried to change the date not only would he have to face HM he would be eviscerated at the GE by the voters including me. It's not going to happen. Its going to go through Parliament today and then the lords on Thursday, Friday and Monday because there’s apparently lots of hurdles, and then we’ll have both sides ‘reluctantly’ agreeing on a GE.
COYP |
|
| Matov 04 Sep 19 9.15am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Especially when the lying b******s who agreed to not only give us a referendum and also honour the outcome stab us in the back. So lets get back to Parliamentary democracy. And since no party has an over-all majority and cannot form a government then a general election is the most logical way forward. Referendums are a dead-end. That is clear now. So lets go to the country in a GE.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Sep 19 9.37am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Mapletree
She wasn’t badly hurt, just shocked. But many thanks for caring I’m glad and relieved, even though it was decades ago, but I still am glad to hear that she wasn’t badly hurt, just shocked. I know it’s often said this way, when it’s what happened, and I don’t want to upset you or anything by this, but is saying your sister was blown up by the IRA the right thing to be saying? Sorry if any offence caused.
COYP |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Sep 19 9.50am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
To you maybe. I thought that he was self assured and made his points quite well and "Corbyn's Surrender Bill" is a phrase that could be used quite a bit in the near future Self assured he most certainly wasn't, especially early in the day when he was being pressed on what "progress" had been made in the "negotiations" and what his "proposed deal" was. He was confused and full of repetitive bluster. Framing this as any kind of attempt by Corbyn to take power is both clearly wrong and, in my opinion, a huge mistake tactically. Using such phrases as "Corbyn's Surrender Bill" might play well with the already committed in the blue rinse shires, and some on these pages, but it isn't going to impress too many others. This is an attack by Johnson on Parliament and Corbyn isn't Parliament. Everyone knows Corbyn is a very reluctant recruit to this cause and has only been forced there by those behind him. Any election will see a range of opponents line up against Johnson, including some heavyweights who were previously on his side and who will gain plenty of air time. The opposition may differ politically but they will be united in opposing Johnson's strategy.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Sep 19 9.53am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Matov
Especially when the lying b******s who agreed to not only give us a referendum and also honour the outcome stab us in the back. So lets get back to Parliamentary democracy. And since no party has an over-all majority and cannot form a government then a general election is the most logical way forward. Referendums are a dead-end. That is clear now. So lets go to the country in a GE. They haven't though stabbed anyone in the back! They have done their duty, even though some are still unable to understand why that is.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| chris123 hove actually 04 Sep 19 9.58am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Penge Eagle
406 constituencies voted LEAVE Parliament VERSUS the people. As mentioned repeatedly, the problem is Parliament - repeatedly!!!
|
|
| Penge Eagle Beckenham 04 Sep 19 10.00am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As I have said many, many times I detest Corbyn and far left politics just as much as I detest the far right politics now being promulgated by this government. There is NO evidence for this absurd statement. You cannot back this up.
|
|
| Penge Eagle Beckenham 04 Sep 19 10.01am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by chris123
As mentioned repeatedly, the problem is Parliament - repeatedly!!! MPs don't seem to realise that the people are sovereign!
|
|
tome  Inner Tantalus Time. 04 Sep 19 10.12am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Matov
WTF? Leave or Remain. A simple question. No preconditions attached to either position. And numerous promises the result would be honoured. What is not to understand? If you want the votes of 17 million plus people ignored then have the courage to admit that. Don't hide behind this 'oh poor Leavers did not understand what the word 'leave' meant.'. We did. Did you? What does it mean then? After all there have been a load of different flavours bandied about. I think the whole thing was ill-conceived from the start. In essence the referendum asked if voters wanted to keep things the same, or leave. Regardless of your position, it's abundantly clear that 'leave' can mean any number of different things. I think before the referendum happened it should have been set out that if leave won, that a variety of options would then be explored before being put back to the people, then alongside a stay option. Article 50 pressed if that happened. Instead lots of people seem unprepared and even more seem angry one way or the other. It's not something with an easy reset, and I struggle to see a scenario plays out better that the situation we had beforehand.
|
|
| tome Inner Tantalus Time. 04 Sep 19 10.15am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Labour finding an excuse to avoid the election! Cowards and weasels.....Corbyn was talking big and now it's 'only on my terms'. Boris will no doubt have the vote tonight and show to the country that Labour are too scared to go to the polls. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2019 10.03am) Dunno what's changed around here but this seems unlike you - where's the reasoning and evidence? No musings? Disappointed. Edited by tome (04 Sep 2019 10.16am)
|
|
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2025 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.